Should all students be trained on Nitrox?

[Jonathan]

and voila - you have a small violin! sorry couldn't resist!

I forget the proper PADI term as it has been a while since I did my AI but of course they should be introduced to it - you want to sell them the course after all

The main reason I don't think it will work as part of OW is there are too many instructors who aren't trained and not enough places with nitrox available.

Jonathan

 

[AliKat]

I think no. Not so much because it is "too dangerous", but just not necessary for OW. It should be a choice once someone is certified if they want to dive nitrox.

 

[rusky4u]

I say no…
Chief of all because due to poor buoyancy control a owd with no experience can easily go down to a dangerous depth…
And as we all know that can happens not to deep, depending on the mix…
It`s ok to tell them about nitrox but getting certified must be something outside basic OWD teaching.
Additionally it would add unnecessary stress to the first dives when everything seems to be a mystery…mainly the bcd, and when all divers seem to carry too much weight in their belts!

 

[ScubaScott]

No need to introduce EAN to basic OW coarse other to explain benefits/disadvantages of it all. OW students doing thier cert. dives have enough going on in thier head already. Nitrox is additional training and should remain that way. Besides, as OD stated - air gives you 60 minutes at 60' - deep enough and long enough for most any beginers.

Availability is another issue. the nearest nitrox fill for me is 200+ miles..........

SS

 

[Soggy]

Jonathan once bubbled...
and voila - you have a small violin! sorry couldn't resist!

Ok...the music geek in me must come out now.

a viola is a larger member of the violin family....tuned a perfect 5th below the violin and an octave above the 'cello. So, viola...you have a big violin.

 

[MikeFerrara]

Dr Paul Thomas,

I guess I'm slow but let me try again using this question.

"Do you really need to be Nitrox certified in order to breathe/use it when being taught to dive under the supervision of a suitably qualified instructor?"

As a practical matter, no. I could put nitrox in their tank and they would have less N2 exposure and, given the nature of the training dives, there would be no chance of going below the MOD for the mix. However I'm not sure I see a reason for it. OW training dives are shallow and our students don't do yo-yo profiles. We fix that in the pool and make certain things are under control on the platform before we begin OW training dive 1. There is also the issue of cost and more importantly cost vs benefit.

As a purely philosophical point, I don't like it because they would be totally reliant on someone else to ensure an appropriate mix and the tracking of O2 exposure. This is a direct contradiction to what I teach. If a tank contains anything other than air they should personally verify the contents before using it. If they are prepared for training in OW they are not completely dependant on me for survival, they are merely gaining experience in the environment under supervision. If they didn't understand and were not in control of the limits of the gas they used it puts them in an ignorant position. As I said, this is a point of principal.

 

[Jarhead]

MikeFerrara once bubbled...
Do you really need to be Nitrox certified in order to breathe/use it when being taught to dive under the supervision of a suitably qualified instructor?"

MikeFerrara once bubbled...
As a practical matter... the issue of cost and more importantly cost vs benefit.

Granted. There is a cost difference.

MikeFerrara once bubbled...
As a purely philosophical point, I don't like it because they would be totally reliant on someone else to ensure an appropriate mix and the tracking of O2 exposure. This is a direct contradiction to what I teach. If a tank contains anything other than air they should personally verify the contents before using it. If they are prepared for training in OW they are not completely dependant on me for survival, they are merely gaining experience in the environment under supervision. If they didn't understand and were not in control of the limits of the gas they used it puts them in an ignorant position. As I said, this is a point of principal.

The point is to teach the complete Nitrox course as a module of BOW. If you teach nitrox, then they could understand the gas, "ensure an appropriate mix and the tracking of O2 exposure" for themselves.
Make them do the very same things in BOW w/Nitrox that they would do in a Nitrox class.
It's not for everyone. Make it an option.
It will make the class longer. So make the class longer
It costs more. So charge more. (A Cadillac costs more than a Geo).
They won't pay it. Are you sure? It might be the hook that brings them in.

It's already being done by some agencies in some locations. The real question is:
"Is it marketable in your area?"
In Indiana? Probably not.
On the coast? Probably.

 

[Big-t-2538]

Dr Paul Thomas once bubbled...
Hi JT2,

Now back to my original question. Do you really need to be Nitrox certified in order to breathe/use it when being taught to dive under the supervision of a suitably qualified instructor?

Alright...I guess concievably yes, you could put Nitrox into their tank, and the student would know no difference. So long as it was only in a situation where there is no chance of exceeding the MOD, no chance of the student exceeding the maximum O2 exposure time limits (which is probably unlikely in OW training dives).

Do I agree with this...NO. What is the need? Less N2 exposure? Most OW training dives are to no more than 40ft, usually not longer than 30 min, and I always try to ascend along a wall or line in a very slow fashion in case any students have bouyancy problems. Then we always do a safety stop. Granted this isn't a full proof plan, but nothing tragic has happened yet.

Other disadvatages: 1. Someone else is responsible for making sure the students gas is blended correctly. 2. Someone else has to be responsible for watching the O2 exposure limits. 3. You are putting the student's bodies at a risk becuase they aren't learning to dive on the same N2 exposure that they are going to get when they go out on their first dive and get an "AIR" fill.

I guess in conclusion the only advantage I see is less N2 exposure. Considering the stress you have to put on someone else to make sure everything runs smooth is your perogative. I would never do it, and I do not condone it.

 

[Big-t-2538]

Jarhead once bubbled...


The point is to teach the complete Nitrox course as a module of BOW. If you teach nitrox, then they could understand the gas, "ensure an appropriate mix and the tracking of O2 exposure" for themselves.
Make them do the very same things in BOW w/Nitrox that they would do in a Nitrox class.
It's not for everyone. Make it an option.
It will make the class longer. So make the class longer
It costs more. So charge more. (A Cadillac costs more than a Geo).

I still would have to think that Nitrox is something that you would introduce after an OW certification is complete.

I guess living in Ohio, there isn't near the demand for Nitrox as there is in mony other places. Around the Dayton area, there is only 1 LDS that offers it. The next closest place would be an hour away (cincinnati), and the third closest is almost 2 hours away (indianapolis).

Jarhead, you make a valid point...

I guess that if there was the caliber of student capable of learning Nitrox in conjunction with BOW, and the demand for it, I would say they could be bundled together. I think there would have to be additional classroom sessions to explain the differences between air and Nitrox, and to learn Nitrox. However, I strongly feel that this definetly is not for everyone.

Anyway, just my 2 cents

 

[Bubble Boy]

Its all Nitrox but yes it should be specialized training. Not to change the subject to much but there is more things that can be emphasized on a BOW course. The agency standards are "minimums". At least I like to think so. It all boils down to the instructor. I know some instructors that (this is not an agency shot) would never teach a Peak Bouyancy performance course as their attitude is that this is something that should be taught on a BOW course. If you do not have bouyancy skills you are in need of more training.

A few years ago ( jees I feel old) there used to be open water one, open water two, then advanced. Now for marketing reasons a lot of agencies call the next five dives after the original certification "advanced divers". I think not.

But back to the original question....Nitrox for BOW.......best mix on a 40 foot dive?....... is it really worth it?....your basic ow diver is lucky if they own one 80 cu ft tank.