Should we get pony bottles?

[elan]

There are still cases when you do need to have redundancy whether is a form of doubles or a sling tank - call it a pony
One reason could be diving cold water when free flows can essentially force you to close the valve or abandon the reg. If the buddy's octo is running of the same stage as it their primary you can introduce the flow on their reg as well.

Great buddy skills in general do not guarantee you will never get separated. Strong currents and poor vis can still make it possible.

We got separated with my buddy this summer diving Niagara River the vis was around 10ft max and the current was around 2 knots. It took 2 seconds literally for us to get separated.

The pony does give you an opportunity extend your bottom time as you essentially carry your part of the rock bottom in it. So if you dive a 80 cuf single tank and have a rock bottom of 40cuf you can only use remaining 40 cuf from the back gas. If you sling a 30cuf pony you essentially carry your 20cuf in your pony and 20cuf in the backgas. So it essencially gives you 60 cuf.
You do have to be aware of the content of the tank at all times and monitor the state of the tank. You should also never eat into your buddy's rock bottom so

You have to switch to your pony the moment your buddy switches to your octo
And if you used the full 60ft from back gas you have to switch to your pony on the ascend.

it is a cumbersome protocol and there are other , much better options available but it can be done safely

 

[scubadada]

I would not dive an AL80 deeper than about 60 feet without some form of redundancy.

I go by the idea of 1 cf per foot of depth with a little safety margin added.

Most conservative I've heard

 

[diverrex]

I would not dive an AL80 deeper than about 60 feet without some form of redundancy.

I go by the idea of 1 cf per foot of depth with a little safety margin added.

Isn't your buddy your redundancy?

 

[scubadada]

i don't think this can be right. you must be short changing yourself. my 6cf bottle lasts 6 or 7 minutes at 15 to 20 feet.

Correct, at twice my usual SRMV, I consume a little less than 1.1 cu ft per minute at 15 feet

 

[JamesK]

Most conservative I've heard

I completely understand the train of thought. If you consider the gas planning numbers I posted earlier, it should clearly show how limited an 80 truly is.


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[DaleC]

You can screw up a perfectly good thing by trying to make it perfect.

 

[Michael Guerrero]

If you get the pony you may notice the weighting rolls you to one side. You may need to shift your weights around a little to compensate. And I promise that if we ever meet on a dive boat I won't think less of you for carrying a pony .

Good luck and be safe.

 

[kwinter]

Isn't your buddy your redundancy?

Ok, time for a poll. How many folks with at least 100 dives have never, ever found him/herself separated from a buddy by more than a 5 second swim? Because in an OOG situation, 5 seconds seems like an eternity and could easily mean the difference between survival and death from a full blown panic situation.

 

[dumpsterDiver]

Even though the OP has made his decision, I'd like to address why I would tell someone NOT to get a pony.

First off, I get a chance to see a great many local divers with them, using standard BCs. They pull the rig off balance, and I'm convinced they contribute to sculling and hand waving. Since I think one of the greatest things about diving (and a prerequisite for excellent photographs) is to be able to be still, I'm prejudiced against tank-mounted ponies on BCs.

A slung bottle on a BC or plate that can hold it stable is better, but again, until the diver has mastered stillness without it, they're going to have at least a learning curve for managing a gear setup that is unbalanced from side-to-side.

In addition, this adds the cost of an additional tank (not that much cheaper than one you could actually DIVE) and a regulator, which also then needs service.

Is it horrible? No. But I really think most people would be better served to put the money into more diving, or more coaching, and improving their skills and knowledge, instead of adopting a gear solution to what is really a planning problem.

I just don't see this problem, but to be honest I don't dive with that many weak divers. When my youngest was 9, we started him on a 6 cu-ft pony and although I've never checked, I think the 6 may be the most negative pony with the realtively big valve and regulator etc...


The first few dives, he WAS off center. However, he was about 80 lbs and a 63 cu-ft aluminum tank was big for him. I added a 1 lb lead weight on the opposite side of his tank cam band and he was perfectly balanced. Maybe a year later when he had gained experience and 10 or 15 lbs of body weight, we took the weight of and he has never had a problem. A few weeks ago, (at 15 yrs old) he used a 13 cu-ft pony and I asked him if felt the difference from a 6 .. He said not really...

I really do not think that "off balance" is a reason to not use a pony..

 

[je76]

instead of adopting a gear solution to what is really a planning problem.

I am not sure how this is adding gear to a planning problem. This is planning that might require an additional piece of gear. This is stating, "Due to X (visibility, photography, spear fishing, naked mermaids) there is a chance we could be separated... what is our plan for this situation.

When you find yourself separated can you say, "This shouldn't happen, I am a good buddy with good buddy skills... gee I hope this all works out." Even highly trained professionals who drill and drill and practice may find themselves in a circumstance that should be avoidable.

And lets keep this in perspective: This isn't advising someone to start slinging an 80 or switching to double 120s. This is suggesting that someone add a 20 or 30cf bottle as a contingency. When slung properly (I do not advocate tank mounting) it is easily manageable for a diver with a modicum of buoyancy control, is relatively affordable and practice will make it easily deployable.