Sidemount Gear Set Advice

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I dive with my Sidemount with single AL-80 for rec dives in tropical waters, not a problem it all, I take my system everywhere I possibly can.

That is one of the much advantages and flexibility of the Sidemount system
 
I think the best bang for the buck you get with used Scubapro MK20/25 and whatever 2nd stage they come with. Parts and service is fairly cheap compared to Poseidon and the used market for SP regs is probably the largest... you can get a them for under 150 Euros. They're also smaller and lighter than the Apeks regs which makes them great for traveling.
 
Some options:

A List of Sidemount Regulator Sets

Generally, a 1st stage with 5th (end) port and swivel will give you more options for hose routing and configuration / set-up choices.

Posiedon are problematic.... I've owned 6 sets; Cykon and Jet steams. They are restricted in hose routing without workarounds. You have to use Posiedon hoses... otherwise a freeflow can be catastrophic (no feather breathing either..). They're also very hard to get serviced or spares around the globe.

Apeks and Scubapro win hands down for global support. Apeks are easier to service and maintain yourself without expensive tools. In the USA, there's economical alternatives like HOG and Deep6.

Halcyon, UTD etc regs seem like just basically copies of Apeks or Scubapro. But they cost a premium. There's some very cheap generic copy regs around... if going for a copycat reg, maybe cheaper is better?

You could probably get a 2nd-hand XDeep Stealth for around 550, if patient and prepared to shop around. Its popular work both cold and warm water divers (a rare thing). So are the Hollis Katana and Apeks WSX25/45....but they're newer, so it's less likely to find a used one. New ones are substantially beyond $550.

For warm water/travel/aluminium cylinders the Deco Sidemount is a very cost effective solution. It's manufactured by Oxycheq, I believe.
New System - The Deco Sidemount
 
You could probably get a 2nd-hand XDeep Stealth for around 550, if patient and prepared to shop around.
A new Stealth is 500... for a used one you shouldn't pay more than 350, maybe 400.
He is looking for a rig that can take a BM tank though.
 
@Arioc

so i'll start with the rig. The SMS100 is terrible, if you go that route, go with the SMS75, it's what the SMS100 should have been. Even though you aren't in the US, it would be good to call Edd and you might be surprised, especially depending on which tropical destination you are going to. The SMS75 will accept a backmounted single with no issues.
The Nomad XT works very well and doesn't actually need a butt plate, especially with aluminum tanks, however it does really need the Nomad wing. It is designed to go underneath the backplate and because of that, you need a wing designed to fit around it otherwise it gets weird. If you get a Nomad XT, just remove the butt plate because it will get in the way with single tank diving, and is completely unnecessary with AL80's. That Soprasub looks snazzy though

Regarding regulators. @DevonDiver and I are going to have to disagree greatly on this, so sorry Andy.
I agree that a swivel turret is better, however I generally disagree about the bottom port, though it is always better to have and not need than to need and not have.
I own at least a dozen sets of Poseidon Jetstreams and a pair of Cyklons. The Cyklons are annoying because there is no affordable option to go with a normal hose without going to Omniswivel. Cyklons do not need overpressure relief because they are a standard downstreamd esign, their custom hose is because it's a slightly different fitting than the normal regulator hoses. With the Jetstreams, as long as they have the 3960 first stage or newer, the OPV is built into the bottom of the first stage, and with a very inexpensive adapter from Dive Gear Express or XS Scuba *or the expensive ones from Omni*, you can use standard hoses, which I do for all of my sidemount/stage regulators. Poseidon has one as well, but I don't know how expensive it is. The ones from XS or DGX are just fine if you don't need the OPV. The only sets that don't have them are my dedicated singles and dedicated doubles sets because I haven't had a need to place an order with DGX in several months. I do use ball swivels on all of my sidemount regs, but it's a comfort thing, it's obviously not necessary.
I find hose routing to be just as streamlined with these as my buddies with swivel turrets with the only two disadvantages being that the long hose reg is annoying at the surface because the HP hose goes in the other direction of the LP hoses, and there is a somewhat higher risk of it getting kinked off during a single file air share. As this is purely recreational diving, it's a non-issue.
Feathering is possible on these regulators, I have done it, but more importantly, in the event of a HP seat failure, they are much easier to breathe and work with than normal regs. With a normal reg, the freeflow starts and the venturi effect will start forcing it to freeflow harder and harder. On the Poseidons, because they are a semi-upstream design, in the event of a HP seat failure, the overpressure will be released either at the hose fitting if using the Poseidon hoses or the Omni swivels with the release built in, or at the first stage. When this happens, the regulators are still going to breathe as normal, just with a bit of an increased work of breathing. Pros and cons, though I choose to use an IP gauge regularly to minimize the risk of it showing up in the water to begin with.
Service and spares globally is annoying, but shouldn't be any more expensive than Scubapro/Apeks and Poseidon has the advantage to those two of actually allowing divers to take the service course and purchase parts and kits freely. That alone is reason enough for me not to recommend Apeks or Scubapro, especially for any dive professionals or technical divers. Ironically, Poseidon requires less specific tools than Scubapro does, though Apeks does win for the least amount of specific tools required. For Poseidon, aside from the big ass wrench to get the top of the first stage off, the only "special" tool required is a bic pen *one of the o-rings inside the second stage, but I've never heard of that one failing, and it's more highly recommended than required. It can be done with allen keys and an o-ring pick, it's just a special kind of annoying* and preferably a set of metric allen keys with the balls on the bottom *to remove the HP seat*. Apeks only needs the pin spanner and allen keys. It is nicer/easier if you have the tools, but you can successfully rebuild both stages with just a set of allen keys, and the big wrench to open up the first stage if you're patient.
The Jetstream/Xstreams can also go onto any first stage as long as the IP is adjusted to ~125psi/8.5bar, and you put an OPV on it, either using a Poseidon hose with the relief, the Omni Swivel adapter, or a cheap $3 OPV that people use on argon bottles and what not.
This is the omni swivel that is epic. Ball swivel, normal hose adapter, and OPV built into one. Not cheap by any means, but really really nice and it is compatible with the Xstream and Jetstream
Omni Swivel Poseidon Xtreme Swivel | Dive Right In Scuba - Plainfield, IL - Dive Right in Scuba

Poseidon has the extra advantage of being non-directional. I run my long hose from the right and instead of hog looping it, it crosses behind my neck onto my left side. I "know" which bottle I'm breathing off of because of which side the bubbles are coming off of, it keeps my shoulders balanced in terms of clutter, and reduces snag hazards when in sidemount passages. When air sharing, instead of having to rotate the reg about the vertical axis, you rotate it along the horizontal axis *mouthpiece down then forward* which reduces hose bending during air sharing and also helps to keep as much air inside the reg body as possible to help with clearing. Reversible regs can't do that since they are fixed from one side or the other which can lead to hose crossing in an overhead. When gearing up, I am able to clip both second stages to my chest d-rings and breathe off of them "reversed" from where I normally would until I get horizontal in the water so there is no undue pressure on the reg hoses until the bottles get situated when horizontal. This one isn't a huge benefit, but it's an added perk since I don't cross hoses/put the suicide strap on until I'm horizontal and everything is riding where it is supposed to.

Halcyon regs are made by Scubapro fwiw, and UTD's are made in Taiwan by I believe ODS who also makes HOG, Deep6, and a myriad of other regulators. Good regs, but I would never buy UTD branded ones. Deep6 currently has the best regulators made by ODS and have the advantage of coming with their first parts kit and first service is free, albeit it is done in the US which would be annoying.

Regarding the Apeks. If you're buying Apeks, it is worth holding out for a set of DST's over DS4's. While I don't have enough of an issue with not having one to spend a bunch of money to replace my first stages, I really wouldn't recommend for new sidemount divers to buy regs without one. The Apeks do not come with the fifth port on the bottom as standard, but that's not nearly as important as the swivel in most circumstances. The fifth port is nice if you front mount your bottles like the Razor crowd so you have a more direct hose routing, but if the bottles are truly sidemounted, then the fifth port is counterproductive.

This is my long hose side using Poseidon Jetstreams with the 3960 first stage, Hollis Katana, and PST HP120's. The swivel wouldn't gain me anything at this point, however if I had to share air, I would have to make sure that I don't allow the long hose to kink if the idiot in front of me pulls too hard. Similar to when diving backmount, you just hold onto the hose to make sure they can't pull it out. The fifth port, would be counterproductive because it would shove the inflator straight into my rib cage which isn't exactly streamlined. In this case, it is a standard length drysuit inflator that comes back up to my drysuit. On the other side, both hoses go straight up and directly into where they are supposed to.
14449882_10157495907900134_3516881679934135137_n.jpg


Rigged, they look like this. Was experimenting on that trip with SPG's down, hated it, and have since switched back to SPG's up like in the picture above.
15036397_10157748947445134_3212809053223266062_n.jpg


I don't like elbows, but others don't like ball swivels, so to each his own. I've seen too many elbows shoot off where the threads stripped and only one ball swivel separate which was my dumba$$ fault for not putting loctite on the screw like you're supposed to. Edd has several thousand dives on his with no issues, and the issues I hear about are those from people who don't rebuild the swivels when they rebuild their regulators, and if they did, were an idiot like I was and rebuilt them improperly. The elbows, there isn't anything you could have done if that screw wants to strip and shoot the elbow in half.

To each his own, but I wouldn't be so quick to write Poseidon off
 
I said that having a 5th port and swivel gives you more options for configuration approaches.

I didn't say it's "better or worse"....

There's lot of options that you can't use without a 5th port and/or swivel. Options which are very popular globally...and quite essential if you want to use certain BCDs or bungee methods etc.

There's some approaches you can use without a 5th port and/or swivel. Some people like those approaches....it's subjective. Those approaches still work if your 1st stage has a 5th port and/or swivel; you just needn't use those ports.
 
I'm not "writing Posiedon off". I know several divers who enjoy diving them.

My personal experience of owning Posiedon regs whilst working/travelling internationally was that they were a complete P.I.TA. to upkeep. I ended up selling them because of it. However, that's specific to my circumstances.... being a diving instructor in remote areas and developing countries.

When it comes to service/maintenance, I'd guess that Apeks/Aqualung easily had the best coverage globally. Scubapro come 2nd. Posiedon are way found the list.

The importance of that coverage really depends on your diving needs. We're all different.

The issue of hoses is important though. Posiedon need dedicated hoses. So, if your host fails on vacation you'll have issues.

The hose is also relevant to the free flow issue. Posiedon hoses have a blow-off that prevents the high IP kicking your teeth out. However, if you don't use a Posiedon hose, you basically can't do anything with a free flow except shut down. Feather breathing is traumatic...I've seen a student try it after a (real) deco reg failure. It wasn't pretty.

Not sure if fitting an OPV on the 1st stage would resolve that issue... but it's worth noting that other regs don't need those sort of resolutions.
 
Tom, as I already told you, it's no problem to get Apeks or SP parts and they're way cheaper than Poseidon parts. Stop telling people that.
 
@Bennno you're still full of sh!t, a. they are not cheaper, b. the official policy of both scubapro and aqualung is to not sell parts to people not certified as technicians who aren't working for an authorized shop. Grey market does not count. Poseidon parts are comparably priced to the others, and now they have an official course where anyone can take it. ergo, better. Just because you can get them freely in Germany doesn't mean we can get them here or anywhere else. The official policy from both of those companies is you aren't allowed to get parts. If you go outside the rules, that's one thing, but do not say they are freely available, and do not say they are cheaper, because neither is true

@DevonDiver lots of misinformation you're posting.
The Cyklons have high IP *165psi vs standard of ~135-145psi*, but do NOT have any OPV assembly. They do have a custom hose, but it is because they haven't changed from the fitting they started using in 1958 when it was first released. They are a standard downstream regulator and if there is IP creep, it will just freeflow out of the second stage like any Scubapro/Apeks etc. regulator.
The Xstream/Jetstream do not currently ship from the factory with custom hoses because the OPV is built into the first stage. They have a hose adapter and use standard regulator hoses and have for close to a decade. These run at a lower IP than any other regulator with a spec of 123psi, and the OPV is because they have an upstream servo valve that will cause an increased cracking pressure as the IP rises. High IP will eventually cause the second stage to freeflow as it escapes past the balloon valve at the base of the regulator, but the OPV, which has the same function as it would on an inflation reg or a deco reg with an inline shutoff, will just let the pressure out until it stabilizes.

Your example of feathering on a deco reg is a little bit exciting, but something else was wrong with that regulator or he didn't feather it properly. In the event of IP creep, the second stage should still stay pressurized. If you depressurize it, it will have to reach IP in order to "lock up" due to the upstream nature of the servo valve. Feathering with an OPV release is as simple as leaving it open while you breathe, as soon as you are done, shut the valve off, and the reg will stay pressurized because the OPV will close as soon as the IP is back below spec. What you shouldn't do with these is breathe them down because they require pressure to seal the second stage. It's completely workable and I've done it in a cave environment before. Annoying like feathering any regulator, but possible.
 
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@Bennno you're still full of sh!t, a. they are not cheaper, b. the official policy of both scubapro and aqualung is to not sell parts to people not certified as technicians who aren't working for an authorized shop. Grey market does not count. Poseidon parts are comparably priced to the others, and now they have an official course where anyone can take it. ergo, better.
It's not true! I bought a SP service kit from my LDC a couple of month ago and they also all over the web. It's not 'grey market' stuff. They're sold by dive shops.
Poseidon service and parts a way more expensive... just look at how much a bloody hose costs. You can easily spend 70 to 90 dollars on a single hose... for 120 you can get a MK20/G250. and get it serviced for like 60 bucks.

Back in the late 90s. early 2000s, a few people I knew literally threw out their old cyclones and bought new ones because they were so cheap and parts/service were so expensive.
I don't see any reason to buy a poseidon reg... Andy as explained why.

Keep in mind that the OP is looking for a cost efficient stuff, Poseidon is anything but that. The OP is located in Europe and new Apeks and SP are cheaper than in the US... tec divers almost exclusively dive Apeks or SP, because they're good value and parts are easy to get and fairly cheap.
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/peregrine/

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