Sidemount Gear Set Advice

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I couldnt quote figures on IP etc. But I saw a diver under stress because of a deco reg that was so forceful on free flow that he couldnt grip it in his mouth when feathering.

Once seen, can't be 'unseen'.

Having owned Posiedon regs for a decade, they have an enormous purge force. Much greater than Apeks or Scubapro. I thought that was relatively well known and commented upon.

Logic seems to dictate a correlation between that blasting purge... and that overpowering free flow. But, that's just my assumption.

Over 25 years, I've had... and seen... many regs go into serious free flow. Posiedon are the only ones that were too forceful for feather breathing.

Either way, Posiedon regs shouldn't be "written off".... but anyone who'd consider buying them for sidemount should do some research and, if bought, familiarize thenselves with the regs performance in both the best-case and worst-case scenarios.
 
...you're still full of sh!t, a. they are not cheaper, b. the official policy of both scubapro and aqualung is to not sell parts to people not certified as technicians who aren't working for an authorized shop.
You're misunderstanding the policy. You're not allowed to service the regs yourself, BUT you're allowed to buy the 'travel kits' (which are service kits) to 'take on vacation in case you need service while away'... see how that works?
 
@Bennno you are in Germany where they are required to sell parts. You are in the only part of the world where that applies. All over the web is grey market because it violates terms of the dealer agreements and at least 2 shops in Germany that I know have had their dealer rights revoked by Apeks for sending parts to the US.

The hose costs don't matter any more as stated by the $11 hose adapter that is available. In the US, and most places, you aren't allowed to buy parts kits from AUP, Aqualung, Scubapro and a couple of others, it is against their dealer agreements, period, end of story.
In the US, Poseidon parts kits for the second stage are ~$17, and the first stages are either $26 or $36 depending on if it's O2 clean or not. That is in line, or cheaper, than AUP, Aqualung, and Scubapro parts kits from their dealers, at least for their retail cost.
You are not allowed to buy travel kits in the US, and if that policy was true, it's completely ridiculous because if you were getting them serviced by an authorized dealer, they'd have the parts. Either way, in this country at least, it is not allowed for dealers to sell parts kits to consumers, it is that simple. You might be able to where you are, but you can't here. Call up any of the dealers in the US and see what they tell you if you ask them that. They'll all laugh at you and tell you they won't risk their dealer agreement if they get caught. I've seen the written policies myself, it's very clear.

Please stop misleading people about policies that only apply to certain parts of Europe *I think just Germany, Austria, and Denmark* and not the rest of the world. Yes, we have parts kits on our ebay from Germany, but there have also been companies that have had their dealer agreements revoked from doing it because it says they aren't allowed to export those parts kits in said agreements


@DevonDiver the IP is lower, but the flow rates are very high which is the violent freeflow when pressurizing. The upstream design requires pressure to seal, so until the IP gets to the point that it will seal, the regulator is able to deliver the full flow rates from the first stage which is quite impressive. That is the source of the "whoosh" when you hear Jetstreams/Xstreams when they are first pressurized as the surface. The blasting purge and violent freeflow are the same thing, but you should not experience that when feathering the regulators unless you are breathing them down after you shut the valve off. That is operator error, and more importantly, the regulators literally can't freeflow with any violent force in the event of high IP, they can only freeflow like that when the IP is well below their specification. The only way they can do that with a properly functioning OPV is if you shut the valve down and breathe on it after you shut the valve off. The proper way to feather them is to open, breathe, after you are done, then close the valve. The OPV will bleed for a second, then stop, and the reg will stay pressurized. If you do this, then unlike other second stages where you are breathing off of a freeflow, the second stage breathes completely normally

I don't recommend Poseidons to most people because they breathe very differently than people with Scubapro style second stages are used to, and they are horrifically expensive if you are buying new, but the OP lives in Sweden, which means he is in a bit of a different boat than most people since the regs are made there. Same with recommend Apeks if you live in the UK, or Scubapro in Italy, support local business.
 
Some options:

A List of Sidemount Regulator Sets

Generally, a 1st stage with 5th (end) port and swivel will give you more options for hose routing and configuration / set-up choices.

Posiedon are problematic.... I've owned 6 sets; Cykon and Jet steams. They are restricted in hose routing without workarounds. You have to use Posiedon hoses... otherwise a freeflow can be catastrophic (no feather breathing either..). They're also very hard to get serviced or spares around the globe.

Apeks and Scubapro win hands down for global support. Apeks are easier to service and maintain yourself without expensive tools. In the USA, there's economical alternatives like HOG and Deep6.

Halcyon, UTD etc regs seem like just basically copies of Apeks or Scubapro. But they cost a premium. There's some very cheap generic copy regs around... if going for a copycat reg, maybe cheaper is better?

You could probably get a 2nd-hand XDeep Stealth for around 550, if patient and prepared to shop around. Its popular work both cold and warm water divers (a rare thing). So are the Hollis Katana and Apeks WSX25/45....but they're newer, so it's less likely to find a used one. New ones are substantially beyond $550.

For warm water/travel/aluminium cylinders the Deco Sidemount is a very cost effective solution. It's manufactured by Oxycheq, I believe.
New System - The Deco Sidemount

Well I can get a xdeep stealth 2.0 for 350 Euros only problem is that I really need a BCD that I can do backmount with. It also needs to be a comfortable backmount since I'll be diving that way 80% of the time and I dont have the space to bring two BCD's.

A lot of people seem to not like the sms 100, which I've seen and its quite large. So it seems what I have to choose from is either the sms 75 or the dive rite nomad. Quite a big difference in price but the dive rite does offer 15 lbs more lift. Is the lift really required? might be better to just go for the smaller hollis wing?

I'll consider what you said about the regs, I know I'll have some problems with servicing as long as I'm out of the country working. Usually from my experience regs hold up quite well and I never had to service my previous set.
 
there really isn't a bc out there that does single tank backmount and sidemount well at the same time. you can try sandwiching a wing between two plates like some of the european guys seem to do for sidemount, but not sure how well that ends up really working.
 
@Arioc

so i'll start with the rig. The SMS100 is terrible, if you go that route, go with the SMS75, it's what the SMS100 should have been. Even though you aren't in the US, it would be good to call Edd and you might be surprised, especially depending on which tropical destination you are going to. The SMS75 will accept a backmounted single with no issues.
The Nomad XT works very well and doesn't actually need a butt plate, especially with aluminum tanks, however it does really need the Nomad wing. It is designed to go underneath the backplate and because of that, you need a wing designed to fit around it otherwise it gets weird. If you get a Nomad XT, just remove the butt plate because it will get in the way with single tank diving, and is completely unnecessary with AL80's. That Soprasub looks snazzy though

Regarding regulators. @DevonDiver and I are going to have to disagree greatly on this, so sorry Andy.
I agree that a swivel turret is better, however I generally disagree about the bottom port, though it is always better to have and not need than to need and not have.
I own at least a dozen sets of Poseidon Jetstreams and a pair of Cyklons. The Cyklons are annoying because there is no affordable option to go with a normal hose without going to Omniswivel. Cyklons do not need overpressure relief because they are a standard downstreamd esign, their custom hose is because it's a slightly different fitting than the normal regulator hoses. With the Jetstreams, as long as they have the 3960 first stage or newer, the OPV is built into the bottom of the first stage, and with a very inexpensive adapter from Dive Gear Express or XS Scuba *or the expensive ones from Omni*, you can use standard hoses, which I do for all of my sidemount/stage regulators. Poseidon has one as well, but I don't know how expensive it is. The ones from XS or DGX are just fine if you don't need the OPV. The only sets that don't have them are my dedicated singles and dedicated doubles sets because I haven't had a need to place an order with DGX in several months. I do use ball swivels on all of my sidemount regs, but it's a comfort thing, it's obviously not necessary.
I find hose routing to be just as streamlined with these as my buddies with swivel turrets with the only two disadvantages being that the long hose reg is annoying at the surface because the HP hose goes in the other direction of the LP hoses, and there is a somewhat higher risk of it getting kinked off during a single file air share. As this is purely recreational diving, it's a non-issue.
Feathering is possible on these regulators, I have done it, but more importantly, in the event of a HP seat failure, they are much easier to breathe and work with than normal regs. With a normal reg, the freeflow starts and the venturi effect will start forcing it to freeflow harder and harder. On the Poseidons, because they are a semi-upstream design, in the event of a HP seat failure, the overpressure will be released either at the hose fitting if using the Poseidon hoses or the Omni swivels with the release built in, or at the first stage. When this happens, the regulators are still going to breathe as normal, just with a bit of an increased work of breathing. Pros and cons, though I choose to use an IP gauge regularly to minimize the risk of it showing up in the water to begin with.
Service and spares globally is annoying, but shouldn't be any more expensive than Scubapro/Apeks and Poseidon has the advantage to those two of actually allowing divers to take the service course and purchase parts and kits freely. That alone is reason enough for me not to recommend Apeks or Scubapro, especially for any dive professionals or technical divers. Ironically, Poseidon requires less specific tools than Scubapro does, though Apeks does win for the least amount of specific tools required. For Poseidon, aside from the big ass wrench to get the top of the first stage off, the only "special" tool required is a bic pen *one of the o-rings inside the second stage, but I've never heard of that one failing, and it's more highly recommended than required. It can be done with allen keys and an o-ring pick, it's just a special kind of annoying* and preferably a set of metric allen keys with the balls on the bottom *to remove the HP seat*. Apeks only needs the pin spanner and allen keys. It is nicer/easier if you have the tools, but you can successfully rebuild both stages with just a set of allen keys, and the big wrench to open up the first stage if you're patient.
The Jetstream/Xstreams can also go onto any first stage as long as the IP is adjusted to ~125psi/8.5bar, and you put an OPV on it, either using a Poseidon hose with the relief, the Omni Swivel adapter, or a cheap $3 OPV that people use on argon bottles and what not.
This is the omni swivel that is epic. Ball swivel, normal hose adapter, and OPV built into one. Not cheap by any means, but really really nice and it is compatible with the Xstream and Jetstream
Omni Swivel Poseidon Xtreme Swivel | Dive Right In Scuba - Plainfield, IL - Dive Right in Scuba

Poseidon has the extra advantage of being non-directional. I run my long hose from the right and instead of hog looping it, it crosses behind my neck onto my left side. I "know" which bottle I'm breathing off of because of which side the bubbles are coming off of, it keeps my shoulders balanced in terms of clutter, and reduces snag hazards when in sidemount passages. When air sharing, instead of having to rotate the reg about the vertical axis, you rotate it along the horizontal axis *mouthpiece down then forward* which reduces hose bending during air sharing and also helps to keep as much air inside the reg body as possible to help with clearing. Reversible regs can't do that since they are fixed from one side or the other which can lead to hose crossing in an overhead. When gearing up, I am able to clip both second stages to my chest d-rings and breathe off of them "reversed" from where I normally would until I get horizontal in the water so there is no undue pressure on the reg hoses until the bottles get situated when horizontal. This one isn't a huge benefit, but it's an added perk since I don't cross hoses/put the suicide strap on until I'm horizontal and everything is riding where it is supposed to.

Halcyon regs are made by Scubapro fwiw, and UTD's are made in Taiwan by I believe ODS who also makes HOG, Deep6, and a myriad of other regulators. Good regs, but I would never buy UTD branded ones. Deep6 currently has the best regulators made by ODS and have the advantage of coming with their first parts kit and first service is free, albeit it is done in the US which would be annoying.

Regarding the Apeks. If you're buying Apeks, it is worth holding out for a set of DST's over DS4's. While I don't have enough of an issue with not having one to spend a bunch of money to replace my first stages, I really wouldn't recommend for new sidemount divers to buy regs without one. The Apeks do not come with the fifth port on the bottom as standard, but that's not nearly as important as the swivel in most circumstances. The fifth port is nice if you front mount your bottles like the Razor crowd so you have a more direct hose routing, but if the bottles are truly sidemounted, then the fifth port is counterproductive.

This is my long hose side using Poseidon Jetstreams with the 3960 first stage, Hollis Katana, and PST HP120's. The swivel wouldn't gain me anything at this point, however if I had to share air, I would have to make sure that I don't allow the long hose to kink if the idiot in front of me pulls too hard. Similar to when diving backmount, you just hold onto the hose to make sure they can't pull it out. The fifth port, would be counterproductive because it would shove the inflator straight into my rib cage which isn't exactly streamlined. In this case, it is a standard length drysuit inflator that comes back up to my drysuit. On the other side, both hoses go straight up and directly into where they are supposed to.
View attachment 394086

Rigged, they look like this. Was experimenting on that trip with SPG's down, hated it, and have since switched back to SPG's up like in the picture above.
View attachment 394087

I don't like elbows, but others don't like ball swivels, so to each his own. I've seen too many elbows shoot off where the threads stripped and only one ball swivel separate which was my dumba$$ fault for not putting loctite on the screw like you're supposed to. Edd has several thousand dives on his with no issues, and the issues I hear about are those from people who don't rebuild the swivels when they rebuild their regulators, and if they did, were an idiot like I was and rebuilt them improperly. The elbows, there isn't anything you could have done if that screw wants to strip and shoot the elbow in half.

To each his own, but I wouldn't be so quick to write Poseidon off

Alright thanks for the advice about the BCD. There is quite a big difference between the Sms 75 and Dive Rite Nomad XT when it comes to price. The dive rite rig seems a bit bigger and also has 15 lbs more lift. Is it really worth paying the extra 200 dollars for the dive rite?

When it comes to the Regs I'll consider what you said. I've wanted to have some Poseidon regs for a long time now but I think its a hard choice between them and the Apeks dst + xtx50. There is someone on the island where I'm on now with a set of Jetstreams, I'll see if maybe I can get a hold of him and take them for a test spin. Is there possibly a cheaper option that you could link to solve the hose problem? 100 Dollars seems a little bit excessive.

Also which Edd are we talking about?
 
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Imo, forget about using the same BC for sidemount and backmount...
 
Still don't know what the big foose is to use the Sidemount with a single tank, it is safer, easier, more flexible rig, than a single backmount.

Why would you prefer to put the tank on your back over slinged on one side ?
 

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