Suggestion So where do you want Snorkeling accident reports?

[DandyDon]

News stories often just say that a diver was involved, sometimes a skindiver which can be taken either way, so we often don't even know early is discussions. Posting stories with little info often attracts more info from others tho, but if we wait for complete stories - we often won't get them.

Freediving, snorkeling, shallow water blackout accident stories from the news have long been posted in A&I, but I don't care. Where do you want them posted, or moved?

Yeah, I am well aware that the board is named Scubaboard but we do have the Snorkeling / Freediving forum, so that argument fails. If you want to move Freediving accident stories there, cool - please do.

Thanks
​

 

[Blue Sparkle]

As background, I think Don's query here now was instigated by this thread, where some discussion ensues:
http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/accidents-incidents/404529-cape-town-fatality.html

 

[Reef_Haven]

I don't know why it bothers some people every time Don starts a new accident thread with (sometimes) very little initial information. I also don't see why they need to comment about that fact. Seems simple enough, if a thread has no info that is useful or interesting to you; move on.

 

[boulderjohn]

The issue of snorkeling and freediving deaths being posted has been discussed with no clear consensus reached. The problem is that there is a wide range of possibilities and no clear dividing line. If someone dies while involved in deep freediving, the consensus is that it is a fit topic for the SB A&I forum. On the other hand, someone who has a heart attack while doing a group surface snorkel excursion --probably not. The second one is really just surface swimming, and there is no point to cluttering up the forum with every surface swimming death that occurs around the world. There is nothing to be gained from a discussion of the incident.

Precedence is no guide, since in every forum threads that are really off topic sometimes slip by unnoticed.

I suspect the fact that the question was raised here will spur more discussion. If you would like to make a suggestion, go ahead.

 

[Diver71_au]

I have stated before and now state again that as there are elements of overlap all snorkelling/scuba/rebreather/hookah deaths should be reported in the A&I forum.

In many aspects the risks and possible outcome are shared and what can be learned from one can be tranferred to another. If we start splitting hairs here where does it stop. What about someone who is on snorkel swimming out to a dive site, someone who completed their dive and climbing the ladder - DAN AP reports compressed gas and breathhold incidents in their annual reports on diving deaths in Australia.

As others have said - if a post is not of interest to you then dont read it. Or having read it dont feel the need to post to say that it was not of interest to you. Personally I appreciate the effort that Don goes to in order to share all these incidents with the greater diving community.

 

[DandyDon]

Thanks for the discussion, and I hope to see more. I don't care either way really, but this is certainly a better place to debate the question than an A&I thread.

 

[RonFrank]

There are over 300,000 drownings annually worldwide. Most of these incidents have nothing to do with scuba and are not interesting to divers, or even free divers. For example in the last couple of days we discussed the death of a man in Hawaii. Turns out he was swimming in 15' of water at night, got caught by current and drowned. How is that interesting to members of SB? How is it even relative? What did we learn? Why is this even on SB? It is a case of someone drowning, nothing more outside of a tragedy for a family.

We have the A&I forum so as divers we can learn (maybe) from others mistakes. However it has become a joke where deaths are reported for no apparent reason, and nothing is learned other than swimming results in drowning for a large number of folks. What is the point in these threads other than morbid curiosity?

IMO this forum should be limited to Scuba Diving accidents as there is little to be learned from free diving accidents. The free diver passes out and drowns or has a medical issue and drowns.... there we have covered free diving.

 

[Brendon]

News stories often just say that a diver was involved, sometimes a skindiver which can be taken either way, so we often don't even know early is discussions. Posting stories with little info often attracts more info from others tho, but if we wait for complete stories - we often won't get them.

Freediving, snorkeling, shallow water blackout accident stories from the news have long been posted in A&I, but I don't care. Where do you want them posted, or moved?

Yeah, I am well aware that the board is named Scubaboard but we do have the Snorkeling / Freediving forum, so that argument fails. If you want to move Freediving accident stories there, cool - please do.

Thanks
​

I dont think they need to be on this site... Maybe on the Snubaboard or Freeboard, maybe even the "Drunk snorkel how to forum"... Now if a snorkler get swallowed by whale shark, I might want to read about that while im on the toilet somewhere in the joke forum.

 

[beautybelow]

"For example in the last couple of days we discussed the death of a man in Hawaii. Turns out he was swimming in 15' of water at night, got caught by current and drowned."

I wasn't involved in that discussion, but it seems as though the discussion itself is what uncovered the fact that it was of no interest to "scubaboard".

"I dont think they need to be on this site"

I think it is way to late in SB evolution to start making statements like this.

I just think it was another let's kick Don for posting a death thread.

Next time someone comes on the cruise ship forum or one of the local forums and asks where is the best place to go because my wife likes to snorkel, shall we run them off because it is of no interest to "scubaboard"?

By the way...who is "scubaboard" anyway?

 

[Blue Sparkle]

I'm going to repost what I said in the Cape Town thread, since it's more appropriate to discuss here:

Originally Posted by RonFrank
Don, are you intentionally reporting snorkelers deaths as this was not a diver. It may be interesting to free divers, but not so much to scuba divers, or at least not to me."

My thoughts:

However, the A & I sub-forum guidelines say that it's for "the discussion of diving Accidents and Incidents." It doesn't specify SCUBA diving. Granted, this sub-forum is a part of "SCUBA Diving Central," but then so is the free-diving and snorkeling sub-forum, so that umbrella alone doesn't seem to me to limit it to SCUBA topics -- especially when the A & I guidelines don't specify SCUBA-only.

Another possible consideration is that sometimes the initial media reports are somewhat inaccurate (along with their equipment assessments), and something reported as "diving" might be free-diving, SCUBA diving, or even snorkeling (so even if A & I were restricted to SCUBA, there might be some leeway).

I'm glad someone takes the time to subscribe to Google news (or however it is that Don gets his info), and then makes the effort to post the info and links here on SB.

There are over 300,000 drownings annually worldwide. Most of these incidents have nothing to do with scuba and are not interesting to divers, or even free divers.

And if you look at the numbers in the A & I thread, I think we can say that most of them are also not posted on Scubaboard,

For example in the last couple of days we discussed the death of a man in Hawaii. Turns out he was swimming in 15' of water at night, got caught by current and drowned. How is that interesting to members of SB?

I think the key there is "turns out." In other words, there was something in the initial report that made it look like diving was involved. Later we found out it wasn't. Okay, then the thread can just die a quiet death. I'd rather a few fizzles like that than not find out about the "real" diving accidents.

We have the A&I forum so as divers we can learn (maybe) from others mistakes. However it has become a joke where deaths are reported for no apparent reason, and nothing is learned other than swimming results in drowning for a large number of folks. What is the point in these threads other than morbid curiosity?

I think you are exaggerating. I have not seen any deaths reported for "no apparent reason." I've seen a few reported that turned out not to be divers; but I think I've seen more where it DID turn out to be a diver. If it bothers you to see the few that ultimately fizzle due to not being diving deaths (or we never get enough facts to have them be very "useful"), then maybe you could only click on them once they get, say, ten posts? That would usually indicate a "going" thread, whereas the fizzlers usually don't get past a handful of posts, if that. Or, I suppose someone (you?) could go through and report any of the A & I threads that turn out to be non-diving incidents. They could then be removed.

IMO this forum should be limited to Scuba Diving accidents as there is little to be learned from free diving accidents. The free diver passes out and drowns or has a medical issue and drowns.... there we have covered free diving.

But as I mentioned above, the A & I forum is (currently) for diving accidents. Not just SCUBA ones. (Unless the policy is changed.) I like to dive in all its forms, so I get a lot out of all the threads that pertain to any kind of diving. And, even as a SCUBA diver, I still make surface swims on snorkel at some times.

So, as is probably obvious, I like the forum as it is, including all diving. And I would rather err on the side of the occasional "wrong" thread than to not see the actual diving ones. I'm just glad someone else is willing to take the time to find and re-format them all for us here.

Blue Sparkle