Split from: Diver Death in Cayman

[Rick Murchison]

... I have over 3000 Dives under my belt and am still learning...

The day I surface from a dive and think I didn't learn something from it is the day I know I'm dangerously inattentive - and either need a major attitude adjustment or need to quit diving forever!
As I tell my students on the subject of precise buoyancy control: "I've been working at it for over 40 years and there's still plenty of room for improvement."
Rick

 

[GaryLee]

The day I surface from a dive and think I didn't learn something from it is the day I know I'm dangerously inattentive - and either need a major attitude adjustment or need to quit diving forever!
As I tell my students on the subject of precise buoyancy control: "I've been working at it for over 40 years and there's still plenty of room for improvement."
Rick

Totally in agreement

 

[Diveral]

When I took my initial Scuba course, there were essentially two ratings - Diver and Instructor. When I re-entered the formal training arena some 24 years later, the shop owner I was doing business with recommended I take the "Advanced" NAUI course. It was interesting... aside from the equipment changes and additions (those were not trivial, as they included SPGs and BCs ), I was surprised that the physics, physiology, dive tables and actual diving skills - and especially the physical fitness - required were somewhat less than my original YMCA diver course.
I was also surprised to learn that I was the only one in the class who could really work the tables backwards & forwards and the only one who had been introduced to staged decompression in the original diver course. (of course we knew nothing of redundancy beyond hang bottles, etc., so it was an entirely different world from today's "tech" diving - but we did cover basic deco in the original course. It was just looked at as a "normal" extension of the tables; what you did when you needed to do it, rather than a "beyond the realm of basic diving" thing).
Bottom line: I had expected much more "meat" in an "Advanced" diver course, but found that except for equipment changes it was the NAUI "Master Diver" course that was best equated to my original diver course (but still without deco). Now I have no idea how much of that can be attributed to changing standards and how much to my original instructor (ex Navy diver), but I do know that today's courses spread what I learned in that original course over the OW - Advanced - Rescue - Master Diver steps, at least in the physics/physiology/emergency/skills areas.
For an even more dramatic comparison, one can look at Rutkowski's original Nitrox course compared to today's offerings.
Rick

I took that YMCA course almost 30 yrs ago and Rick's right on. That's by far the best scuba course I've ever seen or heard of. Unfortunately I can't find any YMCA scuba courses or instructors around here. I would definitely sign my kids up for them if I could find em. Since then I've taken PADI AOW, PADI Rescue, PADI DM, and PADI EANx. That old YMCA course was far more thorough and rigorous than any of the PADI offerings and that was before PADI watered those courses down.

AL

 

[GaryLee]

I took that YMCA course almost 30 yrs ago and Rick's right on. That's by far the best scuba course I've ever seen or heard of. Unfortunately I can't find any YMCA scuba courses or instructors around here. I would definitely sign my kids up for them if I could find em. Since then I've taken PADI AOW, PADI Rescue, PADI DM, and PADI EANx. That old YMCA course was far more thorough and rigorous than any of the PADI offerings and that was before PADI watered those courses down.

AL

There are a couple of SEI guys on here and I know JimLap Swears by his teaching methods. SEI was started up with some of the old YMCA crowd so perhaps that's what you should go for. It will still be up to how good the instructor is though not just the structure of the course.

I guess any 'Not For Profit' organisation is going to be able to spend longer with students and I'd like to see Students learning by practise, in water, not more time in the classroom. That's why on OW Courses I teach (for PADI) I get students to do as much self study at home as possible so we get more time in the pool and open water.
Even with self study they still get over 32 hours with me so lots of fun stuff

 

[fisheyeview]

I took that YMCA course almost 30 yrs ago and Rick's right on. That's by far the best scuba course I've ever seen or heard of. Unfortunately I can't find any YMCA scuba courses or instructors around here. I would definitely sign my kids up for them if I could find em. Since then I've taken PADI AOW, PADI Rescue, PADI DM, and PADI EANx. That old YMCA course was far more thorough and rigorous than any of the PADI offerings and that was before PADI watered those courses down.

AL

YMCA stopped teaching classes several years ago. NAUI absorbed the records so that certification verifications could still be done, as well as card replacements.

 

[Rick Murchison]

YMCA stopped teaching classes several years ago. NAUI absorbed the records so that certification verifications could still be done, as well as card replacements.

I don't think they have any records before '73 or so, though... for those you'd have to track down your original YMCA instructor and have him/her go through the attic.

Rick

 

[Walter]

YMCA stopped teaching classes several years ago. NAUI absorbed the records so that certification verifications could still be done, as well as card replacements.

Nope. YMCA ended it's SCUBA program toward the end of 2008. SEI formed from YMCA Instructors with similar standards was up and running before YMCA completely shut down. If you need YMCA card replacements there are two sources with the records - YMCA and SEI. While YMCA is no longer teaching SCUBA, they are replacing lost cards. SEI also has the YMCA records and is also replacing YMCA cards as either YMCA or SEI at your option. I do not know how far back the records go.

Anyone looking for a course similar to YMCA needs to look no farther than SEI.

 

[fisheyeview]

Nope. YMCA ended it's SCUBA program toward the end of 2008. SEI formed from YMCA Instructors with similar standards was up and running before YMCA completely shut down. If you need YMCA card replacements there are two sources with the records - YMCA and SEI. While YMCA is no longer teaching SCUBA, they are replacing lost cards. SEI also has the YMCA records and is also replacing YMCA cards as either YMCA or SEI at your option. I do not know how far back the records go.

Anyone looking for a course similar to YMCA needs to look no farther than SEI.

Thanks for the correction Walter. All of my old YMCA instructor friends are long since retired.

 

[Rick Murchison]

... I do not know how far back the records go...

IIRC, only YMCA instructor records were kept at national HQ, and instructors kept their own Diver records through '72 or '73; no Diver records were kept at the national headquarters until after that.
Rick
end

 

[TheScubaBOB]

A lot of interesting points here but I still haven't seen this one:

In the end it isn't the Agency or Instructor but the Student.

If you pick a College based solely on price what do you expect to get, a good education or a cheap one? Same goes for Scuba Training.

In any class the Student should strive to get the most from the class, this includes Scuba.

I'm very proud of the fact that my 7 C-cards have 5 different Instructors on them. I plan to get 3 more Specialty Certs (Deep, Wreck & Ice Diver) and am hoping to add 2 or 3 more Instructors to that list. I intentionally seek new Dive buddies as I want to expand my exposure to other's techniques & gear.

A Great Student can get more from a poor class than a poor student can get from a great class.

Now there is the argument that a new Scuba Student doesn't know what they don't know but that holds true for a student of anything.

We need to stop blaming others for our own failures:

If we aren't ready to do something then we shoudl speak-up and seek guidance.

If our OW class didn't prepare us for beginning dives then we need to talk to the instructor, shop or even the agency.

If we want more time in water with an instructor then we shouldn't feel belittled by others for paying for Specialty Certs or Refresher Courses.

I'm shopping around for an Instructor to do DM with. First question I ask them is "What are YOUR requirements for a DMC?" If they recite the PADI requirements then there isn't a second question. if they passed that, I explain to them what I expect to get our of the DMC Experience. I then listen to their feedback.

Students, hold yourself to a higher standard or expect to become a statistic...