Standards deficiencies

[Spectre]

scubatexastony once bubbled...
How about saying you should log 2 "work-weeks" under your belt prior to AOW.....say 80 hours of BT in various conditions? 120 for Rescue, 160 or 200 for DM?

My issue of bottom time is that it rewards shallow dives...

 

[scubatexastony]

Should have put various depths/conditions......

still 80 hours is lot of 20 min. dives.....What I was stressing is getting in the experience

tony

 

[WreckWriter]

Spectre once bubbled...
I'd like to see a method that incorporates dive time and depth into account. is 100 dives @ 20' for 20 minutes the same as 100 dives @ 20' for 60 minutes? What about 50 dives @ 100' for 20 minutes?

I see your point and I don't disagree but what I'm really thinking of here is some way to make it "dives plus years" so we can find a way to keep these 90 day wonder folks in AOW where they belong instead of having them teaching just because they made the time to dive a lot over a short period.

I agree though, no comparisum between a 25' dive and a 125' dive as far as experience gained.

WW

 

[Cave Diver]

WreckWriter once bubbled...


I see your point and I don't disagree but what I'm really thinking of here is some way to make it "dives plus years" so we can find a way to keep these 90 day wonder folks in AOW where they belong instead of having them teaching just because they made the time to dive a lot over a short period.

I agree though, no comparisum between a 25' dive and a 125' dive as far as experience gained.

WW

How about we average their pressure group by number of years diving? Instead of saying "I'm an AOW diver" we could say "I'm a 'J' diver with 4 years experience"

 

[bwerb]

never actually dive outside of their teaching? I am impressed looking at the GUE requirements for instructors which state how many dives they have to do each year at a level BEYOND what they are instructing.

It reminds me of people who golf or climb or ski at the same place over and over again. They become "experts" and then completely fall apart when the leave their familiar surroundings. I think that diving need to be done in a variety of conditions and locations before one should be able to instruct.

 

[Rick Murchison]

Cave Diver once bubbled...
How about we average their pressure group by number of years diving? Instead of saying "I'm an AOW diver" we could say "I'm a 'J' diver with 4 years experience"

It doesn't much matter how you do it, there will be folks who just go diving, and then there are divers. And while diving frequency, types of dives etc may have a more than casual correlation with who's who, it ain't necessarily so.
To use an apt correlary, there are plenty of folks who drive frequently, drive fast and drive far, who strap an automobile on their back every day and don't know zip squat about ignition systems, fuel pumps, filters, specific gravity of coolant versus freezing temp, stopping distances, coeficients of friction between tires and various road surfaces; never look further ahead than the car in front of 'em, never signal, never allow anyone to merge (or even know that they should)... etc., etc., ad nauseum. They are people who drive, and with just a wee bit of luck they'll drive for thousands of trips without killing themselves or anyone else. A pretty good case could be made that a driving course needn't cover anything other than the rules of the road and check that the person behind the wheel can comply with 'em.
At least in diving, they're only likely to kill themselves.
Rick

 

[Butch103]

"Your response would be "Yes" but PADI says "not at first" and moreover, when you do teach it, the order of presentation is A and then B and then C. It's not about their trust in any particular individual to learn anything, it's about that PADI (and they haven't done this randomly) wants people to start diving immediately and they put their focus on in-water training and the practical application of the theory. It's a choice that grew out of the "immediate gratification" culture and PADI is very much aware that a majority of divers don't give a rat's-ass about the underlying theory, they just want to roll backwards off a boat during their holidays with the expectation of having some good safe fun. "

Diver0001.......you couldn't have said any better......

People ae not paying to learn theory they are paying to get into the water and swim with the fishes without having to surface repeatidly for air........

So.....................if the must be taught the background theory ( and IMHO they must) why not "bury" it (and bury may not be the optimum word) in the course throughout. Get them in the water and keep them happy......

Walter..referring back to the mastery of tables, I agree in the fullest, but how many divers a year after taking their course can do repetitive dives using the tables?.....Just a question

 

[Walter]

Butch,

It's just a guess, but it's like most things - use it or lose it. Those who practice their tables keep their skills, those who don't - don't. OTOH, tables aren't exactly rocket science - I taught myself how to use them. You just follow a chart - pretty simple stuff.

 

[Epinephelus]

I believe most of the agencies require divers to carry a snorkel, but not a slate, safety reel or compass. I would make the snorkel optional and the slate, safety reel & compass mandatory.
E. itajara

 

[Butch103]

Epinephelus once bubbled...
I believe most of the agencies require divers to carry a snorkel, but not a slate, safety reel or compass. I would make the snorkel optional and the slate, safety reel & compass mandatory.
E. itajara

I have never carried one ( right or wrong) so I am curious. For the surface marker?