Steam Machine Prizm?

[padiscubapro]

madmole once bubbled...
But passing Navy tests is NOT relevent to sports divers and the CE reflacts that. The Prism CAN NOT pass CE is its current guise

For starters CE requires Audible warning devices so you can still fly the unit should you loose your mask or be in ZERO vis (Navy would hate the unit beeping while sneaking around an accoustic mine)

CE also requires very strict Work Of Breathing rates, which have tightened over the last few years. The Inspiration has been modified to reach these (and Martin tells me it was hard to get it to make the new Standard). The one quick breathe I had off a Prism tells me its nowhere near CE resistance standards as it was noticiably more restrictive than my yellow box (still perfectly fine as far as I was concerned (but I learnt to dive on a twin hose!!))

And when was the last time you were subject to a large EMF pulse while diving???

NAVY testing, great if you are a squady, Me I'll take a RB designed by Sports Divers for Sports divers. Currently RB take up in Europe is FAR higher than in the US, something like70% of all RB's, so for a manufacturer to ignore CE is cutting of a huge section of their potential market. APD realised this from day 1 and the result is their total domination today. Would be nice to see some competition.

You can have the fastest, best handling car in the world, but if you dont ener it into the race you cant prove it. For 70% of the RB market CE is the race entry fee. For us in Europe we dont have an option. No CE ticket means we are on a limb, with no legal sales, support etc

For once the CE CCR standards are actually pretty well thought out and relevent (Amazing for a piece of EU legislation I know), thats mainly cos the UK navy, DERA (Navy test house) and the BSAC were involved in their drafting

And isnt the US in NATO? as NATO have agreed that the CE standards apply to it as from October this year!! Now that should be interesting!!!

As usual France will ingore the rules and carry on doing it own thing. Italy will bribe someone to look the other way, The US will have a token unit that follows the rules, while the covert stuff gets done the same as ever. And of course the UK will follow it to the letter of the law, All wear bright yellow YBOD's (only CE CCR) and get wiped out on their first mission:upset:

Stephen,
If the US navy tests are accurate and I bet they are, the prism meets the new CE WOB limits easily.

 

[madmole]

I'll accept their results quite happily. Breathing a couple of puffs on the surface is not exactly a fair evaluation

Dont get me wrong, I like the Prism. Just wish we could buy them over here!!! and the MEG and KISS etc. All the while there is no competition the Yellow box will continue its domination

Now the Hammerhead electronics are out for the Inspiration we are already getting rumours of APD releasing newer wrist controllers etc, competition is good

 

[KentCe]

Shas once bubbled...
This one I can answer, SMI doesn't list it's manual publicly on the advice of the attorneys (this is the US) - they are therefore not encouraging secondhand purchasers to "teach" themselves.

On the other hand, the lack of "safety" information on a life-support-device could make it far worse for them. Mr. A dies on a second-hand CCR from company B via a third-party. Company B defense is "Of course we made our safety information on our CCR a secret." Including the safety note not to dive without proper training and the other 20 pages of warnings. Jury would love that. Another corporation hiding information from their customer (I assume even buying from a third-party would still make them their customer) may not be the best game plan.

If someone was that dumb, there is more than enough information in books and other CCR devices (including DIY) to figure it out. The lack of technical date from the actual company could be part of the cause of death. That said, I'm surprised that any US company would sell a RB.

This brings up another important issues, would it be a good idea to sell your current CCR to someone? Can you really tell (and prove) they had a valid card for it?

Please note, I'm not a lawyer and the above is NOT legal advice. I may be totally full of it (wouldn't be the first time) and may not even make sense.

 

[madmole]

Fortunately for us in the UK, we can sell second hand easily. We just put "Sold as Seen" on the reciept and we have no liability what so ever as long as we asnswered the buyers questions honestly.

Not true of course for commercial sellers, manufactures etc. I suspect in the US every one is liable!!

Can understand why the Kiss'es of the world have the "This unit can kill you" engraved. But there are a lot of other things that can kill you far easier in this world. Cars, bees, falling out of bed etc

Thats aniother reason for CE certification. It gives a layer of protection to the manufacturer in that he can prove that his units meets Internationally agreed safety, design and production standards for Sport divers in court.

 

[caveseeker7]

fins wake once bubbled...
Now, personally, I'd like Biomarine, Steam Machine and Jetsam ...

No CE-certification on this Biopack 240, but maybe you're still intrested.
It's up for sale on ebay (Now that's a scary thought ... :wacko: )

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2528930592&category=11905

 

[caveseeker7]

... and get the CE-certification. It would be great not to have to worry about travelling/diving Europe due to lack of CE-mark.

The Prism is really the prime candidate for it as it has been around the longest. Shas, wasn't the unit in development before the CE standard?

The Megalodon is still a new unit, and I assume any bugs will be ironed out. I guess it wasn't designed and built with CE in mind, a mistake I would try to avoid. Then again, who knows what they are working on right now.

It seems the RB80 was designed because it was needed for a job on hand rather than commercial sales, for use by a chosen few. In that case Halcyon probably doesn't want the CE-cert in the first place.

The CCR2000 is prohibitally expensive for most people, and I doubt it could be a serious contender in the RB market even with CE on it.

As for the KISS, that's technically a self-build unit. It probably couldn't get CE-certified even if they wanted to ... Madmole, remember the Super7? Was sold in kit form to avoid tax ... in some areas it needed to be registered as a kit car/homebuild. In the US they still are, therefor they don't have to comply to some laws (no airbags for example). Unless there is a similar set of regulations available for RB 'home builders'/assemblers, I doubt the KISS is eligible.

 

[fins wake]

... but I think I'll pass on the BioPac ...

As a European diver, I'd like to emphasize what Diver Mole has said. Of course, one can always ignore the rules. We already do. I can buy US-authorized stage bottles here in Sweden. Not actually allowed to be sold in Europe at all, because it lacks the CE-markings, but everyone uses them and the technical centers will fill them. I mean, they sold them in the first place.

But it becomes harder with rebreathers ... they're not that discrete, y'know? And people are out to get the RB manufacturers. Heck, this is a world where even free diving accidents or people knocking their heads jumping into pools whilst swimming are labeled "diving" accidents. One then has to ensure that one isn't banned out of existance. Which actually happens (through the courts and through extravagant and uninformed juries) in the United States as well.

CE-markings are indeed the ticket to the race, just like Diver Mole says. And I also wish Steam Machines and the others would join that race. Competition is healthy and the US RB manufacturers make good products.

But to be honest, I don't think the US market will drive recreational rebreather progress at all, precisely for the legalistic reasons that have been advanced many times in this very thread.

In that sense, Europeans are more pragmatic and more advanced.

You cast hard rules in stone (which of course the Italians and French can bend at will ) and then you go diving. You don't have to worry about the sort of "I-killed-my-wife-on-purpose-with-my-diving-knife-but-it's-Aqua-Lung's-fault" problems that seem to plague US scuba diving (and McDonald's and others) so much ...

K.

 

[blacknet]

Hello,

While reading thru this thread I noticed several references comparing the prism to the inspiration. I also noticed some remarks about bouyancy.

I was curious if anyone can furnish me a compairson of bouyancy characteristics between the prism and the inspiration.

Ed