Support my LDS? Really?

[Belmont]

Another update from my LDS, and as of now this IS my LDS. She explained the warranty issue - it's a non issue now, and as long as I have a receipt from an authorized dealer, we're good. She actually BEAT the best online pricing I was getting, so again, no issue there. She was professional and courteous and made sure the other people in the shop knew the details since she won't be there Saturday when I go in to sign over my paycheck

Good for you, it's a place where you don't have to leave your first born as collateral.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

But good shops can continue but will need to offer something whether it's training, trips, expertise, service, socialization, etc. that an online store has trouble providing.

Beer ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[seriousdiver]

Personally, I don't see how the LDS can ever compete again. The internet is too powerful. It's sad in a ways, because it makes it very hard to own a dive shop when all you can sell are classes and trips. I'm willing to bet in the near future that most dive shop owners will likely own their shop as a part time venture.. making it more of a hobby than a career.

I don't believe that's the whole truth.

When you break it down, retail businesses have two classes of owners, those that thrive regardless of the situation and those that don't thrive.

Good dive shops adapt, compete, and thrive.

Bad shops stick with antiquated pricing, bad service, and give up after a slow and painful death.

How do I know LDS CAN Compete?

I own and run a small chain of specialty Retail stores and have been in the retail business since 2004.

Most of my competitors have gone into bankruptcy, sold, closed, or have failed to adapt to changing buying patterns.

My stores have been extremely successful because I don't bull**** with my customers, my prices are LOWER than online stores before sales tax is concerned, and my quality is high.

There is absolutely no reason a LDS can't compete with big online stores because a Online store still has the cost of the product+shipping+overhead to deal with.

The problem is most customers instantly assume the LDS has higher prices and so get their stuff online without doing due diligence.

In MY opinion, LDS CAN and should be able to compete with online stores if they want to adapt and do honest business.

**Occasionally you will have online stores selling things at below cost and while that sucks liquidations are part of the retail industry.**

I support my LDS and while some of their prices are higher than online stores, they're also extremely convenient and have a great staff.

To further prove a point I keep google open at all times while my stores are open, if anyone thinks my prices are more than online stores I will google the UPC code and 9/10 times Google will show who is selling the product and for how much and I will price match on the spot.

As far as I know I've only had to price match a couple of times over the last 7 years, sale prices included.

If you think my overhead is low think again, three of my stores are in the DC,Maryland, and VA areas; three of the most expensive cost of living/doing business areas in the WORLD.

LDS can adapt or die, they CAN compete if they "want" to, just like any other retail sector.

As a SBO I have very little sympathy for people blaming their overhead, blaming the internet, and blaming their competitors for their woes, lack of sales, or debts.

Yes, I'm brand new to these forums and scuba diving, but I'm not new to the business sector and I see a lot of speculation that just doesn't pan out in the real world.

For additional perspective I have family who are in the business of buying and selling failing AND successful businesses for owners and there are plenty that are doing great and the ones that are failing have a terrible attitude when it comes to actually competing.

 

[Ysuboy]

I whole heartedly agree with the above statement. There are a few stores in my area that are very competitive with online prices. One being my lds another being, of all places, a athletic shoes store. I have also been to places that will price match locally but not Internet. Generally those are big box places that I try to not go to anyhow as I want to support the local guys as much as I can. For my diving equipment, I got a great price on everything as the lds gave me a discount because I bought so much. I was happy I got a great deal, they were happy I made such a substantial purchase for being so new and now we have a great business relationship. I'm going to be happy to do more business with them because I know they will treat me good when buying and also support me after if I need anything.

To the op I'm sorry your local lds is how it is, I too would be reluctant to buy from them and would probably inconvenience myself to have to drive further to a place where I would be glad to spend my money. After seeing how involved and specialized this equipment is, I would never buy online unless I knew 10000% exactly what I was buying and what to expect. To me, it's too much hassle boxing and shipping back. Plus some places online charge restocking fees, etc plus I'd you need support, who will you go to? I cannot work on my own equipment. One day I will, but until then I need my lds in my corner. Plus, who else would I buy air from?

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

Scuba is a very small niche market when it comes to retail sports related hobbies.
One way I see an LDS making it is to get a corner in a larger diversified sports retailer similar to how Sport Chalet does it.
That way they aren't trying to cover all overhead by being a dive shop only.
That strategy would also allow for being more competitive since a lot of the overhead pressure would be relieved.
I can hear many of you saying "Yeah, but I don't want someone from the skiing department showing me a reg or filling my tank". Well, you might have to get used to it.
Everytime I've been into a Sport Chalet I've had someone who knows diving and was specifically hired to work that department help me, but that's not to say they don't call in sick once in a while.

Unless a dive shop is in a diving mecca town like in Monterey or somewhere down by the ocean in LA or in Florida I think they all will continue to have a tough time trying to survive.
It's not anybody's fault, it's just the times.

 

[robbcayman]

I don't believe that's the whole truth.

When you break it down, retail businesses have two classes of owners, those that thrive regardless of the situation and those that don't thrive.

Good dive shops adapt, compete, and thrive.

Bad shops stick with antiquated pricing, bad service, and give up after a slow and painful death.

How do I know LDS CAN Compete?

I own and run a small chain of specialty Retail stores and have been in the retail business since 2004.

Most of my competitors have gone into bankruptcy, sold, closed, or have failed to adapt to changing buying patterns.

My stores have been extremely successful because I don't bull**** with my customers, my prices are LOWER than online stores before sales tax is concerned, and my quality is high.

There is absolutely no reason a LDS can't compete with big online stores because a Online store still has the cost of the product+shipping+overhead to deal with.

The problem is most customers instantly assume the LDS has higher prices and so get their stuff online without doing due diligence.

In MY opinion, LDS CAN and should be able to compete with online stores if they want to adapt and do honest business.

**Occasionally you will have online stores selling things at below cost and while that sucks liquidations are part of the retail industry.**

I support my LDS and while some of their prices are higher than online stores, they're also extremely convenient and have a great staff.

To further prove a point I keep google open at all times while my stores are open, if anyone thinks my prices are more than online stores I will google the UPC code and 9/10 times Google will show who is selling the product and for how much and I will price match on the spot.

As far as I know I've only had to price match a couple of times over the last 7 years, sale prices included.

If you think my overhead is low think again, three of my stores are in the DC,Maryland, and VA areas; three of the most expensive cost of living/doing business areas in the WORLD.

LDS can adapt or die, they CAN compete if they "want" to, just like any other retail sector.

As a SBO I have very little sympathy for people blaming their overhead, blaming the internet, and blaming their competitors for their woes, lack of sales, or debts.

Yes, I'm brand new to these forums and scuba diving, but I'm not new to the business sector and I see a lot of speculation that just doesn't pan out in the real world.

For additional perspective I have family who are in the business of buying and selling failing AND successful businesses for owners and there are plenty that are doing great and the ones that are failing have a terrible attitude when it comes to actually competing.

Here's the problem... many online retailers are now drop shipping direct from a manufacturer, so there's no overhead. Furthermore, they do so much volume they can get a much lower rate for the product than say Bob's scuba shop. Another kick in the head to the LDS is the online retailer often doesn't have a brick and mortar store, so no electric bills, insurance, rent, upkeep, property taxes etc.. and all those things all have to be factored into the price of the product. Not to mention, the internet is keeping consumers from paying taxes in most cases, which can range up to another 10% on the price of the product.

The common trend I have seen is guys go get certified from a local shop and then buy their gear online. Because of the aforementioned problems, it makes it very difficult for the LDS to compete against the internet. I run a fairly successful business venture and I have learned that you must evolve in the business game or get left behind.

 

[Them]

The dive shops have actually built up a nice little cartel for themselves. Very few divers own their own compressor. Without a compressor you are going to take your cylinders somewhere to be filled. The shops all enforce a $15/yr private tank tax and most do marked-up hydrostatic tests. They also use the compressor cost to sell training which must be one- on-one. None of these things are going to be replaced by online stores with zero overhead, and very few divers see this as a blatant antitrust violation in need of correction. I don't mean that in a "let's lynch 'em" way but cut the pity party, they are not defenseless against an internet onslaught. Quite the opposite - from how things are set up I would bet the industry used to be heavily mail-order and they adopted policies to make life hard for anyone who didn't have a retail store.

Stores willing to invest in resources like reasonably well placed stores, deep swimming pools, big compressors, highly trained employees to maintain and repair equipment, etc. have a tremendous advantage over Internet-only retailers. What they choose to do with that advantage is up to them.

Locally I've seen a spectrum. For whatever reason there are a lot of dive shops in this small inland area so I can find a pretty good cross section. Some are really nice, and some are about as fun as an auto insurance brokerage.

 

[seriousdiver]

Here's the problem... many online retailers are now drop shipping direct from a manufacturer, so there's no overhead.

They run the risk of looking like amateurs when they can't fulfill the orders. Drop shipping isn't always a guarantee and sometimes the manufacturers won't do it unless they're paid extra. Also consider when you're doing multiple item orders, drop shipping really isn't an option unless you have it all set up to be drop shipped.

There is always going to be some kind of overhead in a business, otherwise everyone and their mother would flock to the business. Hell, maintaining a quality website is an expense that isn't cheap.

Furthermore, they do so much volume they can get a much lower rate for the product than say Bob's scuba shop.

Yes and no, volume is extremely difficult to get by anyone except Walmart(who pretty much rewrote the book on buying via volume). I have no issues getting the best volume pricing for my industry and can compete against big box stores even though I have <25 stores.

Another kick in the head to the LDS is the online retailer often doesn't have a brick and mortar store, so no electric bills, insurance, rent, upkeep, property taxes etc..

That's not necessarily true or accurate. The LDS I bought from online(not MY LDS, but a LDS) has the best pricing I've seen of any online stores. They have a physical location.

Not to mention, the internet is keeping consumers from paying taxes in most cases, which can range up to another 10% on the price of the product.

That will be changing shortly, within the next couple of years the taxes will pretty much be paid for by all online stores. Plus those that don't collect the tax currently aren't the ones engaging in tax evasion, the buyers are.... The internet doesn't keep people from paying taxes, laziness and lack of ease is what's "preventing" people from paying taxes.

The common trend I have seen is guys go get certified from a local shop and then buy their gear online.

I bought items from an online Dive shop that is extremely reputable because my LDS didn't carry the brand I wanted in fins and mask. I still buy gear and other items from my LDS. There is no rule that I need to buy 100% of my gear from my LDS, and as a business owner I wouldn't expect any customer to spend 100% of their allocated funds with me.

I run a fairly successful business venture and I have learned that you must evolve in the business game or get left behind.

That was the crux of my argument. The fact that online stores thrive does NOT mean LDS can't compete, they can either adapt, work on their customer service, or get left behind.

Running ANY business isn't easy, it isn't cheap, it isn't for people that don't like having to actually work their ass off, and it isn't a guaranteed 100% success rate.

There is opportunity to be made whenever people say an industry is obsolete, sometimes running into a burning fire while everyone is running out of it can be extremely lucrative or you could end up getting burned.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Comparisons between dive shops and other businesses aren't necessarily valid ... unless you're running a business where your suppliers dictate to you how much inventory you MUST buy each year and how much you can advertise your products for. Much of the disparity you see between online shops and brick-morter shops is driven by supplier policies ... the big two in particular (SP and AL) ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[seriousdiver]

Comparisons between dive shops and other businesses aren't necessarily valid ... unless you're running a business where your suppliers dictate to you how much inventory you MUST buy each year and how much you can advertise your products for. Much of the disparity you see between online shops and brick-morter shops is driven by supplier policies ... the big two in particular (SP and AL) ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Supplier policies doesn't explain disparity in pricing. If the online stores are breaking the supplier policies then their supply should be cut off to them. My retail stores do have companies we buy from that have extremely strict MAP requirements, that doesn't mean we can't compete with the online stores, the MAP requirements are enforced and the online stores also are required to sell for a certain amount.

Retail is retail, to say that the dive shops can't compete and that I can't compare them to other businesses falls flat when you look at it.

I see dinosaur managers/owners every day that would rather have two feet in the grave rather than adapt or be open to change, and eventually those businesses will fail because competition gets rid of the weakest.

Dive shops that supply air and who are active in their local community shouldn't have any problem selling enough to be profitable and grow.