Suunto Computers - Final Conclusion.

[kelemvor]

Two things:

Firstly lockouts. Your computer is only going to lock you out if you get into deco and then miss your stop. Unless you're Tech diving, then this is not a likely hood, unless of course you're say ignoring your computer, not understanding what it's telling you and get yourself into a position where you haven't got the gas to complete the stop.

Secondly, repetitive dives. I can only speak here from my limited experience of 400 dives on the Eon in the last 3 years. My longest expensive dive trip was 21 days, although I limited myself to 24 hrs off after every 6 days of diving.

I never had an SI of shorter than 90 mins and went to generally 3 dives sometimes 4 per day.

Not once was I limited by NDL, The dives were generally (max depth in m) 30, 30, 20, 10. Never an issue

If however you are having less than 60 mins Si, then RGMB will penalise you.

I can teach RD courses, where I might be up and down on the unresponsive diver, as long as I drop down and hang at 5-6m for a few minutes, everything is good, I can then lead a couple more dives that day and be in the water for another few days. Again no problem

I guess if someone wants to make 2-3 dives with a 60 min SI to say 30m using air, then they will get a conservatism hit. Not something I'd do - because I'll always use Nitrox and wont' have 60min SI so cant' comment

Well... there's should and then there's does. I've never had it happen to me. I follow my computer, and I don't own a suunto so it hasn't been my problem personally. In my short time as a diver I've seen it happen to others in my group. Yes, they could cut each dive short and do fewer dives than everyone else on the trip in order to avoid the lockouts... All of those things involve having less of a dive trip than the others on the boat. If the others who aren't having to do those things are coming up consistently not bent, it's got to make you question the value.

Getting penalized for shorter than 60 min surface interval is also a problem in my opinion. Why in the world wouldn't the computer just calculate the dive based on your actual surface interval? It could be anywhere from 1 minute to completely clearing your nitrogen load. It shouldn't be that hard for the DC to calculate I wouldn't expect. The DC doesn't have to even be ON during the SI. It only needs to remember where you were and how long elapsed while it was off. Actually, getting penalized by a piece of equipment that I paid for would get my goat in any situation. A dive computer should calculate the nitrogen loading and recommend actions based on that. Added penalties beyond what the math in an algorithm works out are a waste of time, and insulting.

Now, I do like added features such as air integration and compasses and whatnot. My opinion above is strictly related to the deco calculation part of a dive computer.

I understand some folks like the lockouts and shorter dive times for a variety of reasons. However, the difference is significant so it's something a shopper should be made aware of before they decide what to buy. If that's what the buyer wants then more power to them. Most people don't find out until they post a thread asking why their suunto is giving them shorter dives or has locked them out when everyone else in the group was fine etc... It's not like those types of threads are a rarity on this website.

 

[Diving Dubai]

Why in the world wouldn't the computer just calculate the dive based on your actual surface interval? It could be anywhere from 1 minute to completely clearing your nitrogen load. It shouldn't be that hard for the DC to calculate I wouldn't expect. The DC doesn't have to even be ON during the SI. It only needs to remember where you were and how long elapsed while it was off

What do you actually think the computer does? It does just that

I've explained why the computer will lock you out, if people want to go into deco and ignore their computer, why waste the money on a computer anyway?

If you feel a computer is restricting you too much and your not getting bent, just change to a Buhlmann computer and alter the GF's until you find a setting your happy with.

If you get bent, make it more conservative the next time
Seriously people should do what makes them happy, its their money and their life. I happen to not want to push teh limits at 50, and know pretty well how aggressively I can dive and still be safe - thus my limits will be different from someone else's

 

[kelemvor]

What do you actually think the computer does? It does just that

If it did just that, there would be no such thing as a penalty. I believe it adds an additional penalty on top of the calculated values. Of course that part is complete conjecture based on the manual, user reports, etc. Nobody really knows for sure because nobody knows how suunto's algorithm works unless they work for Suunto. The manuals do mention penalties, so I know it's not a crazy theory some divers came up with.

 

[scrane]

Well, I think it's good that a dive master use a Suunto with the lowest common denominator algorithm in order to avoid conflicts with other Suunto users. Others can surface with the DM or hang out a little longer as spelled out in the pre dive briefing.
As far as ignoring my backup Zoop's NDL I plead guilty. Using an Oceanic as primary I regretfully saw the Suunto go into deco with considerable ndl time left on the Oceanic. Since the Suunto was part of a console I couldn't let it sit out a dive so every 24 hours it dug in its heels.
Liberal computers can be adjusted to be more conservative. A NDL safety buffer can be determined for added flexibility. Suuntos cannot be adjusted to be more lenient. Even worse they become totally uncommunicative when angered.
As far as the surface interval, the Suunto adds an arbitrary penalty while others stick to their outgas algorithm to determine residual N2. .
The Suunto can be a good computer as long as its limitations are known and accepted.

 

[JohnnyC]

Well, I think it's good that a dive master use a Suunto with the lowest common denominator algorithm in order to avoid conflicts with other Suunto users. Others can surface with the DM or hang out a little longer as spelled out in the pre dive briefing.
As far as ignoring my backup Zoop's NDL I plead guilty. Using an Oceanic as primary I regretfully saw the Suunto go into deco with considerable ndl time left on the Oceanic. Since the Suunto was part of a console I couldn't let it sit out a dive so every 24 hours it dug in its heels.
Liberal computers can be adjusted to be more conservative. A NDL safety buffer can be determined for added flexibility. Suuntos cannot be adjusted to be more lenient. Even worse they become totally uncommunicative when angered.
As far as the surface interval, the Suunto adds an arbitrary penalty while others stick to their outgas algorithm to determine residual N2. .
The Suunto can be a good computer as long as its limitations are known and accepted.

If you dive two different computers, with different algorithms, and your primary is the more liberal computer, that is not diving a backup, that is diving with extra weight. Dive the conservative computer or leave it. If you put your backup into deco, it's not doing a damn thing for you.

 

[scrane]

Ahhh, you should have told me this two years ago.

 

[Steve_C]

Two things:

I never had an SI of shorter than 90 mins

In the last 100 boat dives I have never had a SI of 90 minutes. They are usually 55-65 minutes. Most diving 32 Nitrox in 60-90 ft with HP 100s. Sold my Suunto after a while. Was 15 minutes of NDL on dive 2 which I had the air to use.

 

[JohnnyC]

Ahhh, you should have told me this two years ago.

I would have thought that admitting to ignoring your Zoop once you've bent it is proof enough of the failure of that paradigm.

Hopefully you have rectified that situation.

 

[divezonescuba]

In my case, after a week of diving, my RGBM computer went totally crazy. On the last day, we did Devils Throat. Shortly after exiting the hole at 125, the computer said to ascent to 40 feet for 38 minutes. This is not something you want to see towards the end of a dive like that.

After several minutes at 40 feet, it suddenly cleared the remaining time.

The incident prompted me to learn about decompression procedures which led me to buy a computer with a more predictable algorithm.

 

[azstinger11]

. Of course that part is complete conjecture based on the manual, user reports, etc. Nobody really knows for sure because nobody knows how suunto's algorithm works unless they work for Suunto.

That right there is why I will never buy Suunto again.