TDI-IANTD-PADI Tec Courses

[Selimkafafy]

I am about to go into the dark world of technical diving, and I have several options. The first course (Adv. Ntirox) seems to be offered in all of TDI, IANTD, and PADI. But I can't figure out which organization is better. My instructor is an old friend of mine, and I believe that he is a good one as well, so now with the instructor variable out of the equation. which organization should I go to?

 

[exposure]

You should choose the one that match your instructor That being said, each agency are close in term of programs, the organisation can be different. For instance, if you take only TEC40 from PADI, it is difficult to compare with another agency, but, if you go to the TEC50, I think it is quite similar to TDI Adv Nitrox+Deco Proc+Extended range.

I had the choice between these 3 ones with my instructor and we choose (with the instructor) PADI for the material.

 

[Scott L]

I would go with TDI for advanced nitrox/deco procedures as you will be certified for up to 100% O2. Beyond that, PADI tech courses are more grueling in terms of academics. That can be viewed as a good thing or bad thing depending on your strengths & weaknesses...

 

[Selimkafafy]

the PADI system is quiet clear (tec 40 tec 50 etc.) but when it comes to TDI, as far as i understand you go adv nitrox, then deco procedures, then you dot he extended range (please correct me if im wrong). but when it comes to IANTD how does it go adv nitrox (does it include the deco procedures or is it a separate course) then where do you go from there?

 

[DevonDiver]

A good tech instructor will always teach you what you need to know, irregardless of agency. PADI normally produce good materials, but the tech 40/45/50 manual is a shambles at the moment. It hasn't been updated since the program chanced from the old 'Tech Deep' system. You get a wad of supplements instead...and different knowledge reviews from those in the manual. In isolation (one course/module only) this can cause confusion. However, when applied to the entire Tec40-50 syllabus, it's still a very comprehensive resource. Shame the pictures weren't so "PADI-fied" though...

The TDI manuals are basically just supplements anyway...wire-bound with a plastic cover. I think they (and the IANTD) work very well if you're only interested in an isolated course. There's not as much continuity as the PADI manual has. That's a good thing, or a bad thing, depending on your training plan/goal.

In respect of the courses, the biggest difference between PADI and the rest is at the entry-level. The Tec40 is a more rounded introduction to technical diving, wheras (IMHO) Advanced Nitrox is more specific and needs elements from deco procedures to complete it. Tec45 continues Tec40, with more detailed dive planning and greater deco. The Tec40 teaches quite a lot, but the recommended standards keep you at baby steps. The Tec50 - Extended Range level is virtually identical between all agencies - deep air down to ~50m with a wide range of deco options.

There's little to nil difference between agencies when it comes to recognition or acceptance. Tech is about the diver's actual experience and ability...with maybe some credit for the reputation or 'name' of their instructor. The plastic card itself counts for very little, I've found.

 

[Superlyte27]

A good tech instructor will always teach you what you need to know, irregardless of agency. PADI normally produce good materials, but the tech 40/45/50 manual is a shambles at the moment. It hasn't been updated since the program chanced from the old 'Tech Deep' system. You get a wad of supplements instead...and different knowledge reviews from those in the manual. In isolation (one course/module only) this can cause confusion. However, when applied to the entire Tec40-50 syllabus, it's still a very comprehensive resource. Shame the pictures weren't so "PADI-fied" though...

The TDI manuals are basically just supplements anyway...wire-bound with a plastic cover. I think they (and the IANTD) work very well if you're only interested in an isolated course. There's not as much continuity as the PADI manual has. That's a good thing, or a bad thing, depending on your training plan/goal.

In respect of the courses, the biggest difference between PADI and the rest is at the entry-level. The Tec40 is a more rounded introduction to technical diving, wheras (IMHO) Advanced Nitrox is more specific and needs elements from deco procedures to complete it. Tec45 continues Tec40, with more detailed dive planning and greater deco. The Tec40 teaches quite a lot, but the recommended standards keep you at baby steps. The Tec50 - Extended Range level is virtually identical between all agencies - deep air down to ~50m with a wide range of deco options.

There's little to nil difference between agencies when it comes to recognition or acceptance. Tech is about the diver's actual experience and ability...with maybe some credit for the reputation or 'name' of their instructor. The plastic card itself counts for very little, I've found.

Let me start with, "irregardless" isn't a word.

My two cents, which might be worth less than that is this:
Lots of people out there are getting AN&DP. Some instructors are charging that like it's two classes. And for the guy looking at doing that, take a look at IANTD's Advanced Recreational Trimix class. Here's why...

AN&DP class is X number of dives, X amount of Classroom for X amount of dollars. It certifies you for nitrox and deco. But here's the cool thing about Advanced Recreational Trimix. It's the same number of dives. It involves roughly the same amount of classroom. It's the same math, same books, even the same cost, BUT, ART gives you the use of Helium and gives you a maximum depth limit of 160'. So, same class, same dives (albeit deeper), same book, same cost, but gives you access to helium if you ever want it, and gives you a lot greater depth. It seems like a no brainer to me.

 

[DevonDiver]

Let me start with, "irregardless" isn't a word.

True... I was trying to be eloquacious, which I can see was an absotive failure.

AN&DP class is X number of dives, X amount of Classroom for X amount of dollars. It certifies you for nitrox and deco. But here's the cool thing about Advanced Recreational Trimix. It's the same number of dives. It involves roughly the same amount of classroom. It's the same math, same books, even the same cost, BUT, ART gives you the use of Helium and gives you a maximum depth limit of 160'. So, same class, same dives (albeit deeper), same book, same cost, but gives you access to helium if you ever want it, and gives you a lot greater depth. It seems like a no brainer to me.

PADI (TecRec) offers the option to conduct some of the deeper qualifying dives on normoxic trimix also, but it doesn't lead to a different certification. You still need to conduct the TecTmx65 to get that... which means Tec50 prerequisite. SSI (TXr) had a similar option - not sure if that's still in effect however, as they now have a stand-alone Normoxic Trimix. I'm a bit out of touch with TXr... but their web states 'advanced deco procedures' (ER eqviv) as a prerequisite.

 

[Superlyte27]

With IANTD, I've never taught an AN&DP class ever. When I show them the book for the class, the cost for the class, the dives for the class and then tell them... for the same price, same book, same dives (sorta) you can have "THIS" certification that gets you into trimix diving; they tend to take the better certification every single time.

I'll teach them the AN&DP if they really want it, but no one has wanted it yet when I've laid out all the facts.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

My plan is to do adv nitrox and deco via TDI. I already have helitrox through NAUI Tec which gives me depths to 160. My primary reason for staying with TDI is that I personally know the instructors I would want to do these classes with and trust them. As for the TDI materials I find them quite easy to use, complete for each course, and to the point. But maybe that is because they also play to my teaching style.

I would have continued with the NAUI tech Program and gotten AN/DP through them but due to a personal conflict with the shop I was associated with at the time I no longer felt ok with them. A few things went on that caused me to lose faith in the instructor from a personal standing and at that point there was nmo way I was going to train with him.

Tech is different that recreational training, IMO, as the trust factor for me needs to be implicit in every area. Not just diving. Too many things can go wrong that can kill you damn quick to have any doubts in your mind that would be a distraction.

---------- Post added March 9th, 2013 at 11:22 AM ----------

Superlyte. just looked at your site and the ART cert. Question, what if the student is like me and has some Helium available via the helitrox cert I have and is already doing deco on either back gas or <40% for up to say 30 minutes? Do you adjust the course? Or recommend something else?

Reason I ask is that under the NAUI curriculum we did Intro and Helitrox. We covered deco but not on O2 to 100%. Deco was either on back gas or 32% or 36% nitrox. Richest mix I used was 21/28 after working up to that from 21/17. Deco on the last dive I did on mix was a total of 39 minutes. So right there I exceeded the 15 minutes max deco for the ART course. How do would you do the course for me?

I guess I'd like to know because one of the things with tech training is the variety of training available in the beginning and how instruction varies. For example I am choosing my instructors based on trust, personal knowledge of them and their methods, and to an extent - location. Now if I were to move to Florida, and to cave country specifically, that would have to be a consideration.

So if I decided to look you up for further training and if we clicked on the instructor/student level, what would be your recommendations for me?

 

[DevonDiver]

the same price, same book, same dives (sorta) you can have "THIS" certification that gets you into trimix diving; they tend to take the better certification every single time.

I notice that IANTD has several (3?) entry-level trimix courses/qualifications.

The 'Recreational Trimix Diver' does get a diver onto helium quicker, but in a limited way. For instance, I read that it is a no-stop diving course..."to perform no stop dives using Recreational Trimix Gas mixtures within the limits of the existing qualification level to a maximum depth limit of 39 msw (130 fsw)". I don't see that as a direct comparison to AN/DP at all... which is a decompression course, extended depth range and permitting use of >40%O2.

The Advanced Recreational Trimix Diver permits 48m max depth, but is limited to 15 min deco maximum. Is a similar deco restriction placed on the AN/DP level course? I think AN has that 15 min deco restriction... but surely DP takes you further? The PADI Tec40 (AN equiv) permits 40m and limits to 10 min (non-accelerated) deco. The Tec45 (AN/DP equiv) is much closer... allowing 45m, but with no deco restrictions other than a single deco mix to be used.

The Normoxic Trimix Diver (60m/min19%O2/2 deco mixes) seem more in line with AN/DP/ER or Tec50. Where Tec50 includes normoxic trimix dives, a very similar capability end-state is achieved.