That pesky Medical Statement

[Edward3c]

Although I agree with much of your sentiment about answering "no" on the medical form, it doesn't offer any protection to the LDS/charter operator from a suit from your heirs (at least in the US). On your (untimely demise) they can sue for most any reason they dream up. I believe it would cover them from a suit from you if you had an undisclosed "limitation" that injured you didn't kill you outright. Probably not a high-runner but it doesn't cost much.

In the UK they're used against the dive operator as it's illegal to attempt to off-load your negligence liability. In addition nothing I sign binds my dependants, so they can sue who they like.

 

[NAM001]

I don't think I would disclose any medical condition to an operator. I say this because IMO their liability carrier wants to know not for your benefit but for their legal protection. Other than that they really do not care. If you say you are fine then its the divers fault if an incident occurs. that keeps the ins co happy and it maintains cash flow for the operator. nothing worse than traveling a thousand miles to do a dive and get rejected because of an ins carrier restriction/limitation. I know I would be torqued if I showed up for a dive and got rejected for something I had been diving with for years.

 

[Oldbear]

As a veteran with disabilities my body has been broken for over 25 years. I have to mark YES to a number of the questions. I know this, it is no big surprise. I get a physical every year and I get an updated medical form and carry it with me. I do not have to lie to myself nor to an unsuspecting dive operator just so I can pursue my passions.

I am responsible for myself when it comes to diving...for me a physical is a normal part of the responsibility.

As an instructor if a student marks yes, I just inform them it does not necessarily means they cannot dive. Only that based on their self evaluation they need to speak to a medical professional. Probably 25-30% of my students mark YES and than see a medical professional. I have had only two students (less than 1/2 percent of all my students) be told that they should not dive at that time. I am very happy to say one of them found a condition that was previously undiagnosed and was life threatening if left untreated.

 

[Lorenzoid]

To me it seems unlikely that very many people will spend thousands of dollars and travel thousands of miles and then answer "yes" knowing that if they do, they might not get to go diving.

This is why I wish there were standardization. If a local dive operator asks me to sign a waiver I don't feel comfortable with, I might be able to choose a different operator. But if I have my sights set on a particular dive resort or liveaboard halfway around the world, I might have a problem. I suppose if I were planning a big trip like that, I would inquire in advance--if they didn't alert me first--whether they have a medical form I need to fill out.

 

[drrich2]

This is why I wish there were standardization.

These forms we're stuck with now are just such a thing. One thing about widespread standardization; it won't be the most lenient standard that gets dictated, but the more stringent.

Richard.

 

[Lorenzoid]

These forms we're stuck with now are just such a thing. One thing about widespread standardization; it won't be the most lenient standard that gets dictated, but the more stringent.

Richard.

I dunno. @flyboy08 implied the FAA medicals aren't too stringent. As I said in a post above, I would be pleased to get a standardized annual dive medical exam that was accepted everywhere in the world if such a thing existed.

 

[Nianne]

I don't know about the US since I'm not from there, but in europe it's super easy to get a medical form proving that you're healthy and fit to dive. My doctor does that regularly and they have a form in the medical system exactly for that : with the questions the doctor should have asked you if he doesn't know nothing about diving.

I always have a form, even if I don't check any boxes. Just in case the dive center will be picky and ask anyway.

 

[kelemvor]

I wonder what documentation dive operations who require medical information are keeping in order to prove they are compliant with HIPAA (if US based). HIPAA is one of those things that as I understand it are supposed to protect us from misuse of our medical records, and the form in question could contain some pretty significant details. My guess is dive operations requiring it are not maintaining HIPAA compliance and it's only a matter of time before one of them gets burned. Obviously it won't be a problem for Blue XT Sea as they're in Mexico... unless Mexico has a similar law.

 

[IBjones]

Although I agree with much of your sentiment about answering "no" on the medical form, it doesn't offer any protection to the LDS/charter operator from a suit from your heirs (at least in the US). On your (untimely demise) they can sue for most any reason they dream up. I believe it would cover them from a suit from you if you had an undisclosed "limitation" that injured you didn't kill you outright. Probably not a high-runner but it doesn't cost much.

I shoulda worded that differently. Offers protection from any "legitimate" lawsuit. And yes, it does absolve them of liability. It's called "fraud" (on my part). Neither you nor your estate can sue if your standing in court is based on fraud (fruit of the poison tree). I know that anyone can sue over anything (that's why I stopped practicing law in 2000), but a BS lawsuit will be quashed on summary judgement (hopefully). Let's say I have chronic bronchitis with scarred lungs and the dive shop/charter boat owner doesn't give me a form to sign, and doesn't ask about my medical issues, and I go diving and die under pressure at 100 feet due to a lung problem that was compounded by my bronchitis issue. They were negligent. That's a fact. My estate will sue and they will win. Because, as a matter of law, you can disclaim negligence, but in none of Obamas 57 states can you disclaim gross negligence. Undertaking a life-support sport without inquiring about a participants health is gross negligence.

Now if I have chronic bronchitis with scarred lungs and they have me fill out the form, and I lie, and I die, then they have exercised due diligence. They have no liability. They had no way of determining, except by my answer, if I had a problematic medical condition. I've met no dive instructors that were also licensed physicians, although there probably are some.

Now if I fill out the form truthfully, and go pay the Dr. $75 bucks to "ok" me, once he puts his signature on the form, then once again, the dive shop has exercised due diligence. They have no liability.

So it is, in fact, all about who gets sued, not actual diver safety. I betcha if I got turned down by one doc, I could just go find me another Doc and another Doc until I found a slob who jut signed the form. Let's not forget the DEA fiasco in California when medical marijuana came out. Date Line did an undercover report. All they did was pay the Doc the $250 fee and the doc issued a medical marijuana card all without a physical and even without asking any questions. The office visit was like 7 minutes long. Date Line sent several people in with hidden cameras and several dozen "clinics" were shut down as a result.

My dad is a truck driver. The state makes him take a DOT physical every year and the doc has to fill out a four-page form and my dad send it in to the state before his CDL is renewed. This year he took the form to his V.A. doc and the doc just signed it and handed it back to him.

 

[IBjones]

I wonder what documentation dive operations who require medical information are keeping in order to prove they are compliant with HIPAA (if US based). HIPAA is one of those things that as I understand it are supposed to protect us from misuse of our medical records, and the form in question could contain some pretty significant details. My guess is dive operations requiring it are not maintaining HIPAA compliance and it's only a matter of time before one of them gets burned. Obviously it won't be a problem for Blue XT Sea as they're in Mexico... unless Mexico has a similar law.

Dive centers and charter boats are not a "covered entity" under HIPAA. HIPPA only applies to healthcare clearing houses, doctors, health insurance companies and their associates.

IT specialists, lawyers, accountants, are all exempt from HIPAA (unless they are contractors or employees of a "covered entity".) So basically, the dive shop can do whatever it wants with your medical form so long as it isn't negligent. For instance, Kinkos can throw your medial records in the pile to be shredded, and every employee in the place can browse your medical history until shredding day. That isn't illegal as Kinko' is not a covered entity under HIPAA. But if your DOCTOR throws your records and the shred pile and some employee reads it before shred day, then that is a violation because your doctor is mandated under HIPAA.

If someone was to bring their PC to me to be fixed, and during the process of fixing it I run across their porn and their health information stored on the hard drive, and the hard drive is bad, I can technically throw that hard drive in the dumpster legally when I replace it with a new one. If some dumpster diver (no pun intended) finds it and takes it home and steals all your data, I have not committed a HIPAA violation. My computer repair shop is not a HIPAA "covered entity".

Believe it or not, YOUR EMPLOYER is not a "covered entity" under HIPAA. Neither are life insurers, most schools and colleges, Child Protective Services, the Police, lawyers, and workers comp insurance carriers. Most of them do try to be somewhat careful with your medical info so they don't get sued for negligence.

Long story short, when you fill out PADI's medical history form, you're trusting the dive shop and it's employees are going to do the right thing with it. They have no legal duty under HIPAA to store, disclose, or dispose of your medical info in accordance with HIPAA.