The Grand Traverse in Peacock Springs.

[JahJahwarrior]

I get frustrated when intro divers ask me to do a dive to thirds with them, with them in doubles. I won't do it. I also get frustrated when they want to do jumps with me. I won't do it. When I wanted to dive to thirds and do jumps, I ponied up the cash and took apprentice. When I honed my skills and wanted to make sure I had really mastered the basics of this cave diving thing, I took full cave. Now, I'm progressing and honing more advanced skills. It's taken a few years and a lot of time and money, and when divers want to jump right in and do advanced dives with me, it frustrates me.

I'd really like to do the Grand Traverse with some cave diving buddies of mine, including Netdoc, but after giving it a lot of thought I've decided that sort of dive will wait until they are Cave 2 or Full Cave. Plenty of other fun stuff to go dive, and you can learn a lot of the cave that you'll see on the Grand Traverse during those dives. That makes the dive, when you do it, much safer, for the reasons DeepSeaExplorer listed above.

 

[aquaregia]

I just wanted to mention that this thread, and the matching one at TDS, have been really interesting to me as a non-cave diver. It's interesting, though not at all unexpected, to see the differences in certification compliance between open water diving and cave diving. I dig the sense of community in the posts, but sad that anyone was offended.

 

[DeepSeaExplorer]

I just wanted to mention that this thread, and the matching one at TDS, have been really interesting to me as a non-cave diver. It's interesting, though not at all unexpected, to see the differences in certification compliance between open water diving and cave diving. I dig the sense of community in the posts, but sad that anyone was offended.

I'm not sure if you're refering to me, but it was not my intention to offend. I reread my post and it does sounds a little snarky. When I made the 'adult' comment, I was thinking about a particular friend because sometimes I feel more like his parent. My first cave dive was a sneak dive with him in Little River back before I got certified. Now, he gives me grief because I won't take him along anymore.

I know that some of the arguments may sound hypocritical - I can break the rules, but you can't. For me, it's really just refusal to grant authority to others to dictate how I conduct my hobby. I have always maintained that there needs to be two set of rules, one for beginners and another for more advanced divers. The system now attempts to hold everyone to the lowest level, which then forces some divers to be secretive about what they're really doing. Who really runs a primary in Ginnie? Damn few... I have been there when there were almost 10 teams in the water with not a single primary run.

Regular cave classes don't prepare anyone to go all the way to the EOL in Ginnie, but divers are doing it every weekend, others are doing solo exploration dives, etc. I would even argue that it doesn't prepare you for the Grand Traverse, hence new cave divers questions about how to do it. You need some good experience past being full cave. I think I had two or three years after full cave before I did it, and I was eager too.

At some point, a diver has to make an educated decision about what types of dives are within his/her capability and experience. The default standard now seems to be once you've maxed out the available classes, you can do whatever you want. When a diver has maxed out all of his training options, I'll support him, or her, to exercise his right to do whatever dives he feels are with in his capability. But, don't tell me you're ready to do a mile long cave dive without being full cave.

 

[karstdvr]

Regular cave classes don't prepare anyone to go all the way to the EOL in Ginnie, but divers are doing it every weekend, others are doing solo exploration dives, etc. I would even argue that it doesn't prepare you for the Grand Traverse, hence new cave divers questions about how to do it. You need some good experience past being full cave. I think I had two or three years after full cave before I did it, and I was eager too.

.

I agree with your comments. I think the problem is there are too many goal oriented dives that determine your machismo as a cave diver. Instead of a peacock walking around with their plumage in full bloom,you have people at fill stations who throw out dives like the grand traverse,well casing,Heinkel etc as their indicators of success. Unfortunately,the people who haven't done these dives feel peer pressure to be part of the crowd,and even though they may not be ready,they have an urgency now.

 

[Superlyte27]

I really don't see how the Grand Traverse can be any kind of goal oriented dive. Honestly, I can't see how the well casing is any kind of goal oriented dive, granted I was diving Little River several times a week solo mostly in the middle of the night.

I guess my goals are a little more lofty. I want Diepolders, Eagles' Nest, Crystal Caves of Abaco. I plan on hitting at least 2 out of three this year.

You know, as I think about it, the Grand Traverse was a bigger deal 15 years ago than it is now. If I remember correctly the main line didn't make it all the way to open water back then.

I still contend that this is a very very simple dive that does not circumvent the intent of the rules as I see them. But that's all I got to say about that.

 

[SuPrBuGmAn]

You know, as I think about it, the Grand Traverse was a bigger deal 15 years ago than it is now. If I remember correctly the main line didn't make it all the way to open water back then.

Ya mean back when the divers dying in caves didn't have cave training?

As opposed to now, where the Grand Traverse isn't a big deal, and trained cave divers are croaking ever year doing dives that aren't that big of a deal?

 

[Kevin Carlisle]

Can someone tell me why the rush? If your in a hurry to see the EOL then what is the point in cave diving in the first place if you skip everything else. I have 60 plus full cave dives at JB and I have yet to pass 3500ft, but I know just about everything up to that point and let me tell you its a maze. 2 people who are FULL CAVE and dive cave all of twice a year damn near died at JB a few weeks ago because of this go to fast thinking. Its not a contest and those who think it makes them special are fools. Its all easy until something goes wrong, just ask those two guys from the other week.

 

[Dive-aholic]

I agree with your comments. I think the problem is there are too many goal oriented dives that determine your machismo as a cave diver. Instead of a peacock walking around with their plumage in full bloom,you have people at fill stations who throw out dives like the grand traverse,well casing,Heinkel etc as their indicators of success. Unfortunately,the people who haven't done these dives feel peer pressure to be part of the crowd,and even though they may not be ready,they have an urgency now.

I feel very insignificant. I haven't ever been to the well casing or the Heinkel.

 

[ucfdiver]

I feel very insignificant. I haven't ever been to the well casing or the Heinkel.

I've never been to the well casing either, doubt I ever will....but I'm content with that.

 

[rjack321]

Sniff, I wanna goal so I chest thump with the big boys.:shocked2: