The Grand Traverse in Peacock Springs.

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I's 4400 ft Bob. It's 1800 to Challenge from OG and 1900 to the Peanut restriction from P1. About 700 feet separate the two.
Ah ... I was remembering the 1800 and 1900 parts only, I think ...

Stage use is a whole nother can of worms.

What exactly about stage use really requires teaching? You learn how to read an SPG, switch regulators, and calculate turn pressures in open water class.
On principle I wouldn't do it without taking a class that covers it first. Would rather not make assumptions about what I know, for fear that it might turn out to be a bad assumption in a different environment.

But FWIW - I'm reasonably familiar with the fundamentals of gas management ... :wink:

Hmm . . . 4400 feet, at 50 fpm, is 88 minutes. Call the depth 3 ATA; at my swimming SAC, I'd need to be diving double LP120s to carry enough gas to do that on thirds. Ugh!
I sat out the traverse, but I know it took my two buddies (Mark and Dave) about two hours to do it.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)
 
I don't get it...this dive can practically be done under intro limits, using 600psi at a time. Haven't you already been to the Crypt as a c1 diver? I would assume if you've gone places like that, that the traverse is cake walk.
 
I want to do this before the end of the year. Anyone else interested?

How's Sunday? I can do it on Sunday if you want Pete.

*edit... Wow, I just read this whole thread. What a waste of bandwidth...

Netdoc. I say we go diving Sunday. We'll do some nice simple dives. I'm guessing three of them. We'll never hit thirds before we reach the surface. No jumps, no gaps, mainline only. Does that sound ok? Oh, and our surface interval will be greater than 10 minutes so our computers really count it as three dives.

LOL, Oh, when we're done, we'll call it Orange grove to Challenge, Challenge to Olsen, Olsen to Peacock. oops, didn't realize we'd surface before we got to 1/3rds, oh well.
 
In my view, a cave diver puts the preservation of the cave and the welfare of the cave community ahead of personal goals. Sometimes the people who wrote the standards haven't considered all the potential situations in which those standards could be applied. Once we start wondering whether or not a situation crosses the line, it's better for all if we do not cross it. If you cave dive long enough or go far enough, you will most likely find yourself in an "Oh, Sh*t!" moment. It would suck to need a skill that you don't yet have or need a skill that you can't do very well. A lot can happen between Point A and Point B. When dives become complex to any degree one should be full cave.

Cave diving is about discipline and temptation. If you learn discipline in the beginning of your cave career it will serve you and the community well.
 
How about this? Take full cave and stop bending the rules. (yes, I bent/broke lots of rules, and I finally took it, so my money is where my mouth is)

I can even recommend an instructor close to you, who's so good that any honest opinion about him or his students gets deleted and the user banned! (on another popular forum, not Scubaboard)
 
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How about this? Take full cave and stop bending the rules. (yes, I bent/broke lots of rules, and I finally took it, so my money is where my mouth is)

I can even recommend an instructor close to you, who's so good that any honest opinion about him or his students gets deleted and the user banned!

Who? TJ at dayo?
 
In my view, a cave diver puts the preservation of the cave and the welfare of the cave community ahead of personal goals. Sometimes the people who wrote the standards haven't considered all the potential situations in which those standards could be applied. Once we start wondering whether or not a situation crosses the line, it's better for all if we do not cross it. If you cave dive long enough or go far enough, you will most likely find yourself in an "Oh, Sh*t!" moment. It would suck to need a skill that you don't yet have or need a skill that you can't do very well. A lot can happen between Point A and Point B. When dives become complex to any degree one should be full cave.

Cave diving is about discipline and temptation. If you learn discipline in the beginning of your cave career it will serve you and the community well.

So you are suggesting that people with the skill and sac rate needed to go between two sinkholes lack discipline? And that they are putting their personal goals ahead of cave preservation? Where you go in a cave is not directly correlated with cave damage, necessarily.

The problem here is, cave diving limits are based on gas, not penetration. A diver might have enough gas to swim through a tunnel 2' deep for 3 miles, or to swim through a tunnel 100' deep for 50 feet. Both are within guidelines, and if both dives result in no damage to the cave, is there a problem?

What do mean, "complex to any degree." ? Different people have different definitions of complex. To some, a single jump means complex navigation. Are you suggesting that divers shouldn't do any jumps or swim distances further than XX feet before full cave?

Also keep in mind that due to variances in instructorship, full cave means almost NOTHING. I've seen cavern divers who blow full cave divers out of the water, in terms of both physical and mental skill. Judging someone solely on certification is a lot like judging a book by it's cover. *

I understand you want to be careful what you endorse on the internet, but I think it's just foolish to condemn divers who do dives they are perfectly capable of, and which fall within their certification limits, just because they are Cave 1 and not full cave.


*For example, I had lots of people telling me I should probably look into furthering my training by taking AOW, after I told them I only had OW, but had also recently become full cave. They assumed because I didn't have AOW, but only full cave, that I must not be as good of a diver as them. Obviously, you can make some assumptions based on certification, but you can only take that so far.
 
So you are suggesting that people with the skill and sac rate needed to go between two sinkholes lack discipline? And that they are putting their personal goals ahead of cave preservation? Where you go in a cave is not directly correlated with cave damage, necessarily.

The problem here is, cave diving limits are based on gas, not penetration. A diver might have enough gas to swim through a tunnel 2' deep for 3 miles, or to swim through a tunnel 100' deep for 50 feet. Both are within guidelines, and if both dives result in no damage to the cave, is there a problem?

What do mean, "complex to any degree." ? Different people have different definitions of complex. To some, a single jump means complex navigation. Are you suggesting that divers shouldn't do any jumps or swim distances further than XX feet before full cave?

Also keep in mind that due to variances in instructorship, full cave means almost NOTHING. I've seen cavern divers who blow full cave divers out of the water, in terms of both physical and mental skill. Judging someone solely on certification is a lot like judging a book by it's cover.

I understand you want to be careful what you endorse on the internet, but I think it's just foolish to condemn divers who do dives they are perfectly capable of, and which fall within their certification limits, just because they are Cave 1 and not full cave.

I posted what I did as food for thought for Pete's benefit and for the benefit of others in the diving and cave diving communities. Only Pete, or any individual diver, can decide whether or not to make a dive. Aside from agency standards, landowner rules and regulations, 5 Rules Accident Analysis, Accident Analysis 2008 (Bozanic), each diver should also consider the impact of every dive on both the cave and the cave diving community. If a diver questions whether his or her actions violate any standard, rule or regulation, rule of accident analysis, go against common sense, or somehow may adversely affect the cave, jeopardize access for others, or portray the cave diving community in a negative light, then it is always better to error on the side of caution. Anyone can do what they will with that bit of advice.
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/teric/
http://cavediveflorida.com/Rum_House.htm

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