The Philosophy of Diver Training

[DCBC]

If you had a young son or daughter, which agency would you have them train with, irrespective of the instructor chosen? In other words, if the instructor was to teach to the minimum standards of the agency, which agency's training philosophy do you feel would prepare your child the best for local conditions? Why? Please be as specific as you can.

 

[Lindzi258]

you are responsible for yourself and actions, being an independent diver you can also follow the dive master, but one should know what to do for themselves.

 

[Lindzi258]

If you had a young son or daughter, which agency would you have them train with, irrespective of the instructor chosen? In other words, if the instructor was to teach to the minimum standards of the agency, which agency's training philosophy do you feel would prepare your child the best for local conditions? Why? Please be as specific as you can.

I had an extent instructor his philosophy was to make you drowned proof that was through SSI....

 

[Crush]

If you had a young son or daughter, which agency would you have them train with, irrespective of the instructor chosen? In other words, if the instructor was to teach to the minimum standards of the agency, which agency's training philosophy do you feel would prepare your child the best for local conditions? Why? Please be as specific as you can.

My response has two parts: (1) the agency; and (2) adolescent psychology.

As per adolescent psychology, the concept of personal mortality is abstract until a person reaches about 25 years of age. Of course they know that everyone must die, and that people can die, but they do not truly believe that they are capable of dying any time soon. For this reason, I believe that if my kids begin to dive before, say, 25 years of age, I will want some competent instructor to drill their skills into a high degree of competency. To be clear, I believe that young divers can be very highly technically competent, but they may not weight their own mortality with suitable gravity when faced with a split-second decision.

The preceding paragraph on adolescent psychology is the basis for my choice of certification agency. If I am forced to stay away from commenting on the competence of an individual instructor, I would have to opt to choose the agency with the curriculum which would have the best success of drilling their relevant scuba skills, especially those concerning safety and decision making, into a high degree of competency, appropriate for the diving conditions they are likely to face. Currently my choice would be limited to either of the two agencies with which I have trained - ACUC and NAUI. What I have read in this post would make me look at other agencies as well (Walter seems to like his agencies, as did Thalassamania). The few PADI divers that I have met, coupled with what I have read in this post and verified by checking out their website, have led me to decide that my kids won't be PADI-certified.

One final note - I will make it clear to my kids from the start that I expect them to train at least until scuba rescue diver - not stop at basic OW.

 

[Thalassamania]

If you had a young son or daughter, which agency would you have them train with, irrespective of the instructor chosen? In other words, if the instructor was to teach to the minimum standards of the agency, which agency's training philosophy do you feel would prepare your child the best for local conditions? Why? Please be as specific as you can.

For a course taught to minimum standards only there is not a single recreational agency that I would trust anyone I cared about to.

 

[InTheDrink]

For a course taught to minimum standards only there is not a single recreational agency that I would trust anyone I cared about to.

And yet the wonder: so many somehow survive.

J

 

[InTheDrink]

The more I think about this point the more I agree with NetDoc.

Whilst I think the standard of PADI et al isn't what it should be, people rarely die. Rarely.

It does seem there is a certain crowd here that want OW courses to involve complete mastery. That's a ridiculous stance to take ultimately and also unfair. Allow people the chance to learn over time and on their terms and not yours and in their way and not yours.

They don't need to be masters from day one. If they were dying in droves then yeah sure, but they're not.

I'm all for better standards for diver training. But this amateur dramatics about 'who would I let my kids train with' is pure nonsense of the most emotional and puerile kind. People are NOT dying out there. You're creating this huge rift where there is none - better training standards: yes. But the current standards aren't killing people in any numbers so they're clearly not TOO bad so yes, I'd happily give my son or daughter away to any of the current training agencies to get trained. Although they are 6 [boy is my avatar, left] and 4 respectively so I'll have to wait a little longer.

J

 

[diverrex]

I let my wife train under PADI. Of course she is a warm water only diver. The key is what you do after OW, where you dive, how you dive, who you dive with and what further training you get along the way. I don't think it's necessary to walk out of OW a complete dive master. You just have to make sure you dive within your abilities. Where you dive DCBC I would not assume that minimual PADI training would be enough to start diving. But for easy clear warm water tropical diving I do think the PADI minimums are enough to get a diver started. They still have a lot to learn but that can be learned as they dive with more experienced mentors, gain experience just diving, and take additional classes. It all doesn't have to occur in the initial course. I do think it's great that there are those of you, DCBC, Thal, Walter, Jim Lapenta and others that teach very compreshensive courses and turn out very skilled divers right out of OW. I just don't think that is the only way it needs to be done, depending on conditions of course.

 

[Thalassamania]

And yet the wonder: so many somehow survive.

J

The more I think about this point the more I agree with NetDoc.

Whilst I think the standard of PADI et al isn't what it should be, people rarely die. Rarely.

I just survival is all that you want, go ahead, scrape the bottom of the barrel and take what you get. I'm asking (and offering) a whole lot more.

It does seem there is a certain crowd here that want OW courses to involve complete mastery. That's a ridiculous stance to take ultimately and also unfair. Allow people the chance to learn over time and on their terms and not yours and in their way and not yours.

Just for the sake of discussion, why not? It's better for them, it's better for the environment and (I suspect) in the long run it's better for the diving industry as a whole, it lifts the weight of having to service a mass of people who never do more than pay about ten cents on the dollar for a loss leader course and cough up $300 to $500 dollars for "personal" gear that ends up rotting in the garage (that's a whole $150 to $250 profit for an LDS). The situation guarantees that diving instruction is, by and large, conducted by (being charitable) the barely qualified who will have an industry survival half time of about two years but who's primary function is cannon fodder to assure that a decent pay scale never exists for the truly qualified, except in some unusual circumstances.

They don't need to be masters from day one. If they were dying in droves then yeah sure, but they're not.

A lack of death on the shore is not the only or even the most significant measure of adequate training.

I'm all for better standards for diver training. But this amateur dramatics about 'who would I let my kids train with' is pure nonsense of the most emotional and puerile kind. People are NOT dying out there. You're creating this huge rift where there is none - better training standards: yes. But the current standards aren't killing people in any numbers so they're clearly not TOO bad so yes, I'd happily give my son or daughter away to any of the current training agencies to get trained. Although they are 6 [boy is my avatar, left] and 4 respectively so I'll have to wait a little longer.

J

I guess you're not really concerned about them becoming good, effective and comfortable divers for the long term. How many students from minimum courses of any of the agency are still diving five years or ten years later?

 

[Crush]

Whilst I think the standard of PADI et al isn't what it should be, people rarely die. Rarely.

People are NOT dying out there. ... But the current standards aren't killing people in any numbers so they're clearly not TOO bad...
J

I am confused... Are people dying: (1) rarely; (2) not at all; or (3) not in appreciable numbers?

But this amateur dramatics about 'who would I let my kids train with' is pure nonsense of the most emotional and puerile kind.

Are you insulting the OP for posing such a question, the respondents, or both? I must admit that I find it confusing when Americans beat themselves in the chest, citing the First Amendment as the solution/defence for everything and anything, much in the same way that DIR folk suggest BP/W for whatever diving malady ails you. Do you believe in free speech or not? If you do, why insult the OP, respondents, or both, rather than offering a compelling argument against their preposition?

My response was truthful and measured. I am sorry if you did not like it, but then again, you don't have to.