Treasure hunters!

[DennisS]

Antiquities are bought and sold legally every day in almost every country in the world. The galleons had thousands of coins, most of them were not unique, they were minted en masse in Bogota, Lima and Potosi and shipped to Spain. It would be the equivalent of an armored car wrecking on the way from the mint to the banks. Most of the coins on each ship were from the same year and the same mint. Bags and bags of the same coin.

The state of Florida has leases with Mel Fishers company for the 1715 wrecks. If you would like to go out and work a wreck you can register as a salvor, pay a fee and work as a salvor. The location of every object is mapped and logged. The state archaeologist maintains strict control over the operation and has claim on unique items. The goodies are spread over the ocean floor. They've been recovering objects since the mid 60's and 40 years later finds are still being made. The ships hit the shoals during a hurricane, split open and their contents spread over a wide area. There are still coins being found on the beach after a storm.

There is an archaeologist on staff of the Fisher foundation and they operate a museum where the public can see the items from the 1715 fleet and the 1622 Atocha. Treasure hunters working with archaeologists is a win-win situation.

http://www.melfisher.org/museum.htm

 

[DawgDiver]

Legitimate, maybe, but that doesn't mean his practices are okay, and selling antiquities is definately NOT okay.

Wow... you better tell the millions of antique dealers across the country then... I'm pretty sure they don't know what they're doing is wrong.

 

[TheFoggyMask]

Wow... you better tell the millions of antique dealers across the country then... I'm pretty sure they don't know what they're doing is wrong.

Way to take things out of context, thanks. When something is removed from an archealogical site and sold that is not a good practice. I was not including stores that sell tacky old lamps and china. If you're going to have anything to add to this make it more than a one liner, troll. Do me a favor and butt out of the legitmate threads.

I would like to know what methods they're using to find the items in the wreck. Are they still using mailboxes? Do they care about any of the little things they find on the wrecks? Are things as simple as old cups or eating utensiles being cast aside or blown away in favor of the shinies? While Mel Fisher sounds like he has a good thing going, although from his website he is still clearly in on the action for money and probably little else. This Bob Weller sounds like a clown though. It is apparent that some operations have more integrity than others and I am not attacking everyone who goes through wrecks. More like the destructive treasure hunters of old and illegal activity. Also, recall that not too long ago there were no regulations in place and looters ran rampant, destroying wrecks were there was rumored to be gold.

 

[DawgDiver]

I'm taking nothing out of context. I think your argument is full of holes. "Don't take treasures from the sea, they belong to all of us, and by all of us I mean archaelogists/government officials who will take it and make the public pay to see it".

Seriously, so far all you've complained about is "mailboxes". It's almost as if you just watched the movie "Into the Blue" and now you're all anti-treasure hunter.

 

[radinator]

Also, recall that not too long ago there were no regulations in place and looters ran rampant, destroying wrecks were there was rumored to be gold.

You really are showing your lack of education in this subject. Look up British Admiralty Law, which governed such things is most (all?) UK former colonies including the U.S. There are two major aspects to it - the Law of Finds and the Law of Salvage. Since these laws are centuries old, your 'no regulations' BS is just that, BS.

 

[TheFoggyMask]

Obviously I am completely and utter wrong in every way that looting is bad and treasure hunters are greedy. OK SO I DON'T KNOW EVERYTHING ABOUT FLORIDA, except that misled politicians in the past have allowed the mindless destruction in the pursuit of gold and that treasure hunters have no regard for anything but money. Regulations have not always been enforced, and the organizations responsible for caring for the wrecks have not always known exactly where the wrecks were, meanwhile unoffical looting took place for years and ships, misidentified as the elusive spanish galleon with no valuables to speak of, were destroyed. Massive efforts by SCRU in past years have had much to do with finding, mapping, and taking note of the conditions of ships. I really don't care about florida, the whole place is a mess because of old politics and the acceptance of treasure hunters. So you win on florida and I'm done talking about it.

Does it occur to you that there are other wrecks in the world? Things that aren't spanish galleons? In Washington they're trying to build a new 520 bridge over wrecks that have been deamed "culturally insignificant" when they're quite the opposite. In lakes in the pacific northwest wrecked ships and cars have items removed from them by souvenier hunters. There are tons of wrecks all over the world not necessarily filled with shinies. As more and more divers are able to dive deeper and see the wrecks there is more potenial for souvenier hunting and recreational divers to ruin the wreck for everyone. That was all I wanted to say, a statement of personal responsibility to everyone that wrecks are to be preserved.

 

[radinator]

You keep using the word 'looting' when talking about people doing lawful activities. To quote a good movie, I don't think that word means what you think it means.

 

[radinator]

While Mel Fisher sounds like he has a good thing going, although from his website he is still clearly in on the action for money and probably little else.

I find this a very interesting line. While he sounds like he has a good thing going (talking having an archeologist on staff) you are still getting your knickers in a twist about your perception of his motivations.

You seem more interested in reading his mind about what his motivations are than actually paying attention to what he is doing.

Let me guess. You're a Democrat, aren't you?
(yes, that's a joke)

Frankly, I don't care in the least what someones motivations are for anything they do. I pay attention to their actions. Whether someone wants to save the rainforest for the good of humanity or because treefrogs are tasty, I really don't care. Perhaps you should stop trying to read peoples minds.

 

[TheFoggyMask]

You keep using the word 'looting' when talking about people doing lawful activities. Tp quote a good movie, I don't think that word means what you think it means.

That word means exactly what I think it does. Why don't you respond to my points instead of nitpicking my obviously opinion-loaded word choice? Nowhere in that post did I refer to "lawful activites" as looting. I referred to LOOTING and LOOTING. People don't necessarily go through the proper channels when they try to take things off boats.

Stop skirting around the subject. I don't like greed, if you can't tell, so lets stop talking about what a terrible person I am and maybe discuss if taking things of ships for your personal use is ok, because it isn't. If we're judging people by their actions, then Mel Fisher is just making money and having a good public image at the same time. A museum is something that is useful for getting real science off your back. I don't think splitting up the finds from any wreck for antiquities is alright, and that is what he is doing.

 

[radinator]

In Washington they're trying to build a new 520 bridge over wrecks that have been deamed "culturally insignificant" when they're quite the opposite.

And who deemed them 'culturally insignificant'? Was it treasure hunters, or was it those government bureaucrats and scientists you idolize?

As more and more divers are able to dive deeper and see the wrecks there is more potenial for souvenier hunting and recreational divers to ruin the wreck for everyone. That was all I wanted to say, a statement of personal responsibility to everyone that wrecks are to be preserved.

Preserved for who? You are talking about divers diving deeper to see these wrecks. They are therefore beyond the view of recreational divers, right? A very very few people can see them at that depth. Who are they being preserved for, exactly?

Do you know what some people see when they see a wreck? They see an accident scene that hasn't been cleaned up. They see litter. Do you also advocate leaving damaged buses and cars on the highway to 'preserve the wreck for all to enjoy'? Should plane crashes be left where they lie?

Really, on a basic philosophical level, what makes the debris of a shipwreck so sacred and that of a car or plane wreck not?