Twin-set manifold vs Sidemount vs Independent Twins

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You'll be glad of each dive. While there are only a couple of new skills you haven't done, Side mount for all it's simplicity can be a right faff to get fine tuned. A good instructor will be looking and making small adjustments to get the tank trim just right.

If you're paying for the course, my feeling is to take the opportunity of gleaning as much information and all the tips and tricks you can

Hi DD,

RainPilot PMed the syllabi from RAID. I read all three.

They do have language whereby the instructor can edit the course for someone who has parallel certs and has obvious mastery of the basic skills required for their level of diving.

Also, the courses, depending on what level one is trying to obtain, focused on trimming and adjusting the system. Having the instructor making minor adjustments, and teaching a person how to do it, would be much better than the trial-and-error method during the normal course of a recreational dive. The trial-and-error method can get tedious.

I was surprised to read that buddy breathing was a training issue. I thought that died long ago. In a worst case scenario, with no octo, I can understand the need.

thanks to all for the help!

markm
 
SDI sidemount is 2 open water dives plus it seems confined water,
TDI sidemount is 3 open water and it seems like no confined water, it that confined ratio is N/A.
Not that we normally... go for the shortest cert :).
https://www.tdisdi.com/wp-content/uploads/files/sandp/currentYear/SDI/part 3/pdf/individual/SDI Specialty Standards_22_Sidemount_Diver.pdf
https://www.tdisdi.com/wp-content/uploads/files/sandp/currentYear/TDI/part 2/pdf/individual/TDI Diver Standards_05_Sidemount.pdf

And sidemount is a bit of gear config, easier in a pool than in cold OW.

Hi MichaelMC,

I read the SDI syllabus, and skimmed the TDI syllabus. I like their curriculum the best.

I like that only 2 dives are required for the SDI, while the language leaves an open-end caveat for situations where a little more work is required, at the instructor's discretion (broad paraphrase--don't hold me to letter of what I wrote)

Thanks again,
markm
 
Also, the courses, depending on what level one is trying to obtain, focused on trimming and adjusting the system. Having the instructor making minor adjustments, and teaching a person how to do it, would be much better than the trial-and-error method during the normal course of a recreational dive. The trial-and-error method can get tedious.

Also remember, that the SM harness, although similar has a few differences. By this I mean, during my initial dives, I spent time getting my fingers and hands used to where everything was, so that I could immediately lay my hand on them. I also experimented with the location of items I take on dives. For my personal circumstances I put pockets on the Cam bands of my cylinders - they work for my circumstances.

Anyway which ever course you take, it takes a little time to customise your rig to the way you want it for your circumstances and familiarise yourself with muscle memory with regards to the kit:

the devil (as ever) is in the details
 
sorry for being late to the party with a long post, but since I was tagged I figured I should weigh in.

If you are planning to dive to the Andrea Doria, or the SS Tahoe, you may want to train with a manifolded twinset. You will need more gas, of different types than a SM rig will allow.
You can use multiple bottles quite readily in sidemount. 4 bottles is not uncommon at all to kick around in sidemount in the Florida days. It's done every day down there.
This is 6 bottles, not 4 and done for bragging rights more than anything. No one should ever actually dive like that. 4 bottles is not bad at all.
upload_2019-1-6_18-35-42-png.497777.png


this is collecting empty deco bottles and even in backmount, if you have more than 2 bottles you have to butt mount at least one of them. Completely normal to have a bouquet behind you. This is likely a "look at me" marketing type picture, as there is no way in OW he would be using all of those bottles. If that is an OW dive and all of those bottles are being used, then they would the entire teams say 70ft deco bottle that once depleted would go to a single divers leash. When handed to a support diver, all the 70ft bottles would be empty and together for them to get to the surface. Only other exception would be cleaning up a big cave dive where those stages would be empty *which you should do that dive on a CCR so you don't have to do that*
2mfz0d1-jpg.497780.jpg


With the way backmount deco bottles are hung, you are generally more streamlined with 4 bottles in sidemount than you would be with the necks hanging down in backmount. You usually load one on each side though vs. backmount where they all go on the left.
SMstage2.jpg

It should be done like this. This applies to sidemount as well for the butt mounted bottles. You should never have more than 2 bottles on one side at a time IMO. As you go deeper, the bottles act more empty than they are since we assume He doesn't weigh anything, so a 30/30 AL80 will act like an EAN32 filled AL80 at 2000psi which means it floats. Air/Nitrox bottles are annoying to butt mount in sidemount when full. If on a scooter, the bottles lay down in the slipstream so it's not bad at all, but again, even in backmount you do the same thing so you don't get any benefit by being in backmount.

to answer the tag from @Diving Dubai the prereq's for getting a sidemount cert depend on what you're trying to do with it. Are you actually trying to squeeze through restrictions? If so it depends on what depth you are trying to squeeze through for OW, and in a cave it gets a little dicey. Often a cert won't be issued unless you need it for a dive site/boat. If I teach a generic course in sidemount, you don't get a "sidemount cert" because I think it's a waste of money. If you are trying to learn to actually sidemount dive to get through a restriction though, then that usually is a "sidemount cave" card or something because there are real skills there to keep you from offing yourself.

The hardest part of finding a course @markmud is that many agencies, including PADI allow you to essentially self-certify so there is no guarantee that your course will make you look good.
This is a sidemount instructor....

4 dives is NOT excessive for learning to sidemount dive. There is a lot of gear tweaking that takes time to get right. If you are doing it for the gear configuration, there is no benefit to doing it in OW and doing it in a pool is actually the best way to do it because you have easy access to the shallow water section to stand up and make some fine tuning adjustments. Doing that course off of a boat is downright idiotic. Remember, those sidemount courses are to get you used to a new gear configuration *like the drysuit course*, they are NOT to teach you how to dive sidemount in a place that requires sidemount. People knock the supermanning bottles skill, and while the skill itself is completely useless in most situations, the skill itself is to get you used to clipping and unclipping bottles which is immensely useful when diving off of a boat where you need to be comfortable unclipping them before coming up.

Some of the really good instructors can get you sorted out in just about any gear configuration. Most will not. You will have to travel to find those instructors, that is all but guaranteed.

I think that covers everything...
 
What he said.
 
Hi TBone,

That was good. I learned a lot.

I did not understand your point about the certification.

I am a dedicated recreational diver whose AOO is 0 to 130 feet. I don't do overheads or serious deco. 50% O2 is the richest mix I will probably ever use.

"Often a cert won't be issued unless you need it for a dive site/boat." I don't get that statement.

thanks again,
markm
 
@tbone1004 is the video really the video of an real instructor ?
 
@markmud the point about certification is that the prereq's don't matter if sidemount is only being used as a gear configuration. I can teach you in sidemount as an OW diver if you just want to dive sidemount. As a tec40 diver you can just start diving sidemount if you want, but if you came to me to be learn to dive at the tec40 level in sidemount, I would probably not bother issuing you a card. No point unless you really wanted one, and it actually handcuffs the instructor for flexibility.
so the only justification to get the card is if you wanted one for the sake of wanting one, or if you wanted to get to a dive site that required a card *I'm not aware of any, but there is probably someone somewhere that requires it.

@BlueTrin yes
 
@tbone1004, what about, for example, TDI sidemount being needed as a stand-in for Intro to Tech, but 'in the configuration used'. To the extent that Intro to Tech is somewhat intro to doubles, fault isolation in them, and solidifying buoyancy, trim, and propulsion. Tech sidemount seems the same, plus possibly a few more rigging/trim/mounting issues. Later tech or cave classes seem to often call for Intro to Tech or 'similar in the configuration used'. Though TDI sidemount syllabus is not a superset of TDI Intro to Tech's.
 

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