Max - another question: Maybe this doesn't matter but how far do you try and get the glove forward of the red o-ring? I ask as I tried it on and noticed that sometimes the glove is caught in between the the two hard rings. Perhaps I just need to try and stuff the extra material in the glove as I seal everything up. Thoughts?
Ultima Dry Glove System question
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Max - another question: Maybe this doesn't matter but how far do you try and get the glove forward of the red o-ring? I ask as I tried it on and noticed that sometimes the glove is caught in between the the two hard rings. Perhaps I just need to try and stuff the extra material in the glove as I seal everything up. Thoughts?
I only have the end of the glove a half inch or so onto the ring. Mine are closer to the glove on the right.
My arms are so long that if I reach for a boat ladder the gloves pop off. I found XXL Atlas gloves on Amazon so I don't have to worry as much, but it can still happen. I guess someday I'll get a custom dry suit with longer sleeves.
My arms are so long that if I reach for a boat ladder the gloves pop off. I found XXL Atlas gloves on Amazon so I don't have to worry as much, but it can still happen. I guess someday I'll get a custom dry suit with longer sleeves.
Deep South Divers
Contributor
Good info flying around on this thread. 
Since our conversations here a few months ago, I've put a few hundred more dives on the Ultima Dry Glove ring system. I dive for a living and am using them nearly every weekday. Love them now more than ever.
Couple of quick pointers that I've learned over the past year or so:
1. Use silicone wrist seals to make the seal between your Ultima suit-side ring and the SiTech QCP "oval" glued-in ring. Don't use latex. The silicone's little lip makes a better seal than the latex's flat profile, and silicone holds up better long-term against UV and ozone. There is no advantage to using a latex seal here.
2. Cut the seal AT the end of Ultima suit-side ring. In the picture above, no, that'd make the seal about 1/4" too long once installed. It should be shorter. You want to be able to look inside the suit and see it (to make sure it installed correctly), but you do not want it to be long enough to grab your hand as you doff and don. Too long by even 1/4" makes doffing and donning irritating.
3. The easiest way to install the Ultima suit-side rings is this:
A. Clean the mating surfaces of the suit ring and the Ultima ring with glass cleaner (Windex) and a dry washcloth. Be sure to remove all dust and debris from all surfaces. Let dry.
B. Repeat this process with the silicone wrist seal. Let dry.
C. Install the "lip" of the silicone wrist seal in the OUTERMOST groove of the Ultima ring. Do not push the seal through the ring - leave it pointed at the diver's elbow. Trim the silicone AT the INNERMOST edge of the Ultima ring.
D. Using silicone o-ring lube, lubricate ONLY the outside of the silicone ring that you've made. This will allow the assembly to slide into the sleeve of your drysuit (into the QCS ring) while gripping the Ultima ring enough to stay in place. Be careful, go slow, and be specific... But it'll work if the correct side is lubricated and the other isn't.
4. Ditch PVC gloves. Historically we've used a variety of SHOWA gloves, including the 425, 490, 660, 660KV, and 660ESV. They are all good choices and made of PVC. But the SHOWA 720's are identical in design and instead made of nitrile, which is softer, stretchier, and much more resistant to abrasion than PVC gloves are. They're a lot easier to live with, a lot easier to install, cheaper, and fit better. They're also slightly warmer and a lot tougher and last longer because the material is simply more advanced and more rugged. They're a slightly different color - really a darker royal blue instead of the bright blue, orange, or black of the others... And while I didn't like that at first, I've grown quite fond of it over time. They're just a much better glove.
5. For warmth, avoid a glove with a built-in piling or "fur." They get wet and stinky and frankly a little miserable to wear after a while. Instead, stick with the 720's and wear a glove liner underneath that can keep your hand warm. I'm currently testing both the Fourth Element G1 and the Fourth Element Xerotherm glove. You may have to upsize your 720 one size to accommodate, but it's totally worth it... And the G1 and Xerotherm glove are both machine-washable and/or can be removed for fast drying.
Since our conversations here a few months ago, I've put a few hundred more dives on the Ultima Dry Glove ring system. I dive for a living and am using them nearly every weekday. Love them now more than ever.
Couple of quick pointers that I've learned over the past year or so:
1. Use silicone wrist seals to make the seal between your Ultima suit-side ring and the SiTech QCP "oval" glued-in ring. Don't use latex. The silicone's little lip makes a better seal than the latex's flat profile, and silicone holds up better long-term against UV and ozone. There is no advantage to using a latex seal here.
2. Cut the seal AT the end of Ultima suit-side ring. In the picture above, no, that'd make the seal about 1/4" too long once installed. It should be shorter. You want to be able to look inside the suit and see it (to make sure it installed correctly), but you do not want it to be long enough to grab your hand as you doff and don. Too long by even 1/4" makes doffing and donning irritating.
3. The easiest way to install the Ultima suit-side rings is this:
A. Clean the mating surfaces of the suit ring and the Ultima ring with glass cleaner (Windex) and a dry washcloth. Be sure to remove all dust and debris from all surfaces. Let dry.
B. Repeat this process with the silicone wrist seal. Let dry.
C. Install the "lip" of the silicone wrist seal in the OUTERMOST groove of the Ultima ring. Do not push the seal through the ring - leave it pointed at the diver's elbow. Trim the silicone AT the INNERMOST edge of the Ultima ring.
D. Using silicone o-ring lube, lubricate ONLY the outside of the silicone ring that you've made. This will allow the assembly to slide into the sleeve of your drysuit (into the QCS ring) while gripping the Ultima ring enough to stay in place. Be careful, go slow, and be specific... But it'll work if the correct side is lubricated and the other isn't.
4. Ditch PVC gloves. Historically we've used a variety of SHOWA gloves, including the 425, 490, 660, 660KV, and 660ESV. They are all good choices and made of PVC. But the SHOWA 720's are identical in design and instead made of nitrile, which is softer, stretchier, and much more resistant to abrasion than PVC gloves are. They're a lot easier to live with, a lot easier to install, cheaper, and fit better. They're also slightly warmer and a lot tougher and last longer because the material is simply more advanced and more rugged. They're a slightly different color - really a darker royal blue instead of the bright blue, orange, or black of the others... And while I didn't like that at first, I've grown quite fond of it over time. They're just a much better glove.
5. For warmth, avoid a glove with a built-in piling or "fur." They get wet and stinky and frankly a little miserable to wear after a while. Instead, stick with the 720's and wear a glove liner underneath that can keep your hand warm. I'm currently testing both the Fourth Element G1 and the Fourth Element Xerotherm glove. You may have to upsize your 720 one size to accommodate, but it's totally worth it... And the G1 and Xerotherm glove are both machine-washable and/or can be removed for fast drying.
I’ve been following along on this thread. Having used diving concepts and wp since they were available, I thought I’d chime in. I’ve found the wp rings just as good as the diving concepts which I had used for over 10years. I have used 660’s almost exclusively, cheap, easy to get, and replace. I have a been using a simple jig to replace. It’s basically a round plug made of mdf that fits the wrist ring, and mounted to a piece of plywood I can put in a vise. The wrist ring goes on the plug to keep it steady and secure, then fold in the oring and push on and around. It does tak some finger power by doable.
I ordered some 720’s today as well as some 282’s to see if I like them. I can post up when I give them a try. I usually wear heated glove liners with a thin over glove under my 660’s. I thought it might be nice to have a lined glove that I can put my heated liners into. And the 282 came in 2xl, I need the extra room for my liners. I use the g1 liners when i can. I’ve found them to be the best of the different liners I’ve tried. My hands are my Achilles heal. When they get cold, they do easily, I’m miserable. So I’ve had to work hard to keep my hands dry and warm.
I ordered some 720’s today as well as some 282’s to see if I like them. I can post up when I give them a try. I usually wear heated glove liners with a thin over glove under my 660’s. I thought it might be nice to have a lined glove that I can put my heated liners into. And the 282 came in 2xl, I need the extra room for my liners. I use the g1 liners when i can. I’ve found them to be the best of the different liners I’ve tried. My hands are my Achilles heal. When they get cold, they do easily, I’m miserable. So I’ve had to work hard to keep my hands dry and warm.
Deep South Divers
Contributor
Great info... Between the few of us, we'll get this nailed down.
I haven't tried the 282's... I'm not that big a fan of a "furry" interior on gloves. The 720's - like the entire 660 lineup - are a low-pile "fabric" style liner rather than the "furry" style of the 490's... Although it's not exactly the same. The 660 lineup's fabric is cotton - which is soft and absorbent to a degree. The 720's fabric is acrylic, which tends to stay cleaner and drier because acrylic isn't as absorbent as cotton.
Anyway, the 282's "fur" is acrylic too, meaning that it should stay cleaner and drier than if it were cotton. So it sounds pretty interesting.
The 282's outer material is unique too... "PU," or polyurethane. This differs from the PVC (polyvinyl chloride) of the 660 series and is likely thinner and more flexible than the 660's. The EN388 numbers are great, too... Tougher than the 660's in cut and abrasion resistance, but not as puncture and tear resistant than the nitrile 720's. All three of these gloves have great ratings for all hazards - but it's gonna really boil down to which one is thinner, stretchier, and more flexible since all the numbers are so close to each other. For this reason I tend to favor the thin, stretchy nitrile 720's, but the 282 material sounds interesting.
I'm thus really looking forward to your comparison of the 660's vs. the 720's vs. the 282's.
Last year when I was using the 660's, I was wishing hard for a tool to help install gloves on the Ultima rings. I did some Googling and found some examples, but nobody was selling them anymore... So I made my own, which didn't work out very well. In the end I started using the 720's, which are much stretchier and thus much easier to install on the rings without tools, but I would still love to find a tool that would work, since it's still a chore.
Got video of your glove install tool? I would love to see this thing work. Seems like anything would be an improvement.
I haven't tried the 282's... I'm not that big a fan of a "furry" interior on gloves. The 720's - like the entire 660 lineup - are a low-pile "fabric" style liner rather than the "furry" style of the 490's... Although it's not exactly the same. The 660 lineup's fabric is cotton - which is soft and absorbent to a degree. The 720's fabric is acrylic, which tends to stay cleaner and drier because acrylic isn't as absorbent as cotton.
Anyway, the 282's "fur" is acrylic too, meaning that it should stay cleaner and drier than if it were cotton. So it sounds pretty interesting.
The 282's outer material is unique too... "PU," or polyurethane. This differs from the PVC (polyvinyl chloride) of the 660 series and is likely thinner and more flexible than the 660's. The EN388 numbers are great, too... Tougher than the 660's in cut and abrasion resistance, but not as puncture and tear resistant than the nitrile 720's. All three of these gloves have great ratings for all hazards - but it's gonna really boil down to which one is thinner, stretchier, and more flexible since all the numbers are so close to each other. For this reason I tend to favor the thin, stretchy nitrile 720's, but the 282 material sounds interesting.
I'm thus really looking forward to your comparison of the 660's vs. the 720's vs. the 282's.
Last year when I was using the 660's, I was wishing hard for a tool to help install gloves on the Ultima rings. I did some Googling and found some examples, but nobody was selling them anymore... So I made my own, which didn't work out very well. In the end I started using the 720's, which are much stretchier and thus much easier to install on the rings without tools, but I would still love to find a tool that would work, since it's still a chore.
Got video of your glove install tool? I would love to see this thing work. Seems like anything would be an improvement.
Those are my dc rings, a little bigger than the wp, but you get the picture. I put it in a vice and have at it. The mdf plugs are just doubled up 3/4’s. Tall enough that the ring will trap itself if it tilts up.
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Deep South Divers
Contributor
Awesome that you're willing to share... Thank you so much!
I've never seen any tool like this... So I'm pumped to understand it. Unfortunately, I don't yet. :-/
Can you shoot a video? I'm clueless how you would use this thing.
I've never seen any tool like this... So I'm pumped to understand it. Unfortunately, I don't yet. :-/
Can you shoot a video? I'm clueless how you would use this thing.
I should make a video as well. I place the o-ring inside the glove and start squeezing it onto the DC ring. I hold the first part in place with a plastic A clamp and then finish the circle. The clamp keeps me from having to start over each time the glove falls off the ring.
Deep South Divers
Contributor
Definitely. I'd love to see that method.
I took a 5"diameter piece of PVC pipe and cut a 1.5" wide ring out of it. I then cut it longitudinally so that I could squeeze it into a smaller circle. I placed that circle into the glove, held the o-ring in place (with the edge of the glove tucked in) and used two hands to pull the ring outward and snap it into place to complete the original 5" circle. This therefore held the glove - with o-ring in place - in the correct position to install on the Ultima ring.
I then placed the edge of this ring against the edge of the Ultima ring and tried to roll/slide the glove onto the Ultima ring. I was only mildly successful at doing it once or twice, and ended up just using my fingers like everyone else does... But the concept is good if I could figure out how to use the tool the right way.
Mostly, I've just resolved to rolling it with my fingers - toolless - until I get something that works. :-/
I took a 5"diameter piece of PVC pipe and cut a 1.5" wide ring out of it. I then cut it longitudinally so that I could squeeze it into a smaller circle. I placed that circle into the glove, held the o-ring in place (with the edge of the glove tucked in) and used two hands to pull the ring outward and snap it into place to complete the original 5" circle. This therefore held the glove - with o-ring in place - in the correct position to install on the Ultima ring.
I then placed the edge of this ring against the edge of the Ultima ring and tried to roll/slide the glove onto the Ultima ring. I was only mildly successful at doing it once or twice, and ended up just using my fingers like everyone else does... But the concept is good if I could figure out how to use the tool the right way.
Mostly, I've just resolved to rolling it with my fingers - toolless - until I get something that works. :-/
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