Very clever marketing :-)

[Reg Braithwaite]

I think because, with the Uwatec gauge not available, he's looking for something else he can use in gauge mode.

Actually, pure gauges are available to me. One of the LDS' in town has a Uwatec (or an Uwatec with an OMS label) in the display case for C$240(!) There's also a fellow selling one used for C$130 after one season on another board.

Before jumping on a "deal" or finding a much more affordable new unit, I did read that the batteries are irreplaceable, making the units disposable. Is that a concern relative to buying a computer with a gauge mode that has a replacable battery?

I also hav a concern about the display size. I am now far-sighted, so large digits are helpful when I am not wearing reading glasses.

So I did want some feedback on whether the Duo was a good alternative to an Uwatec.

 

[ltw123]

Why aren't people just buying the Uwatec 330BT? Is this not a viable option for some reason? They seem to be available (I've seen them in 3 different shops in the past month) and do everything that the old one did plus the average depth (non resettable) and extended max depth.

Just curious, lots of people seem to be looking for an alternative and nobody seems to be mentioning this???

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Actually, that is iexactly what I am looking for, although if a question about DIR-appropriate equipment does not belong in the DIR forum, I have no objection to a moderator moving it to a more appropriate forum.

I was looking for the fully DIR answer to the question: "Is this an appropriate gauge? If not, what is better?" I tried to dress it up a little with some observational humour, which may have obscured the intent.

The DIR answer to "Is this an appropriate gauge?" is ... "It depends on how you use it".

The "DIR" objection to dive computers isn't the computer itself, but the way most people use them. You should never rely on a computer to tell you your dive profile. You should rely on your brain to tell you (a) appropriate depth and bottom time, and (b) appropriate ascent rates and stop depths.

You can do this with or without a computer ... as long as you have a gauge that is capable of telling you how deep you are and is keeping track of your total run time.

The primary objection most DIR-compatible divers have with dive computers is that the principle number most dive computers want to display is NDL ... which is the wrong number to be watching if you're thinking like a DIR diver.

Oh, and FWIW - I like the Tec2G in gauge mode. I use it as my backup BT. My primary gauge is a Liquivision X1 running V-Planner V 4.11. The two most prominent numbers displayed by the latter are depth and run-time.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Reg Braithwaite]

The primary objection most DIR-compatible divers have with dive computers is that the principle number most dive computers want to display is NDL ... which is the wrong number to be watching if you're thinking like a DIR diver.

Okay, bit of a digression here, and honestly no intent to "stroke..."

So-called "nitrox" computers also model the risk of CNS and the risk of Pulmonary Toxicity (I may be getting the terms wrong, please correct me) with a %CNS reading and also possibly an OTUs reading. They model the decay of these values as well to account for surface intervals and so forth.

DIR does not appear to value having assistance modeling the risk. Is that because it leads the diver to rely on equipment to solve a problem their brain should handle? Because GUE does not agree with the models chosen by computer manufacturers? Some other reason?

 

[Bismark]

Okay, bit of a digression here, and honestly no intent to "stroke..."

So-called "nitrox" computers also model the risk of CNS and the risk of Pulmonary Toxicity (I may be getting the terms wrong, please correct me) with a %CNS reading and also possibly an OTUs reading. They model the decay of these values as well to account for surface intervals and so forth.

DIR does not appear to value having assistance modeling the risk. Is that because it leads the diver to rely on equipment to solve a problem their brain should handle? Because GUE does not agree with the models chosen by computer manufacturers? Some other reason?

Reg, you are very far away from worrying about CNS and Pulmonary toxicity at this stage in your diving career. While I appreciate the "buy once, buy right" approach to your equipment solutions, if you continue on the DIR path, the first of these issues you will face will be MOD/CNS considerations. Even then, unless you stray far outside the levels of conservatism GUE builds in to their Fundamental diver program, this should not be an issue. By the time you reach the stage in your diving career at which you start using higher ppo2's in your gases, your first computer/gauge choice will probably have worn out anywas..... By the time you need to worry about OTU's, you will probably have worn out your second computer/gauge............. Long story short, these calculations are very simple and not something you need a computer to do anyways. You will learn some GUE "battlefield calculations" that make them easy enough for someone from, say, Ontario to even do! BTW, merry Christmas and Happy New Year. Buy the Tec 2 G and move on to worrying about something else, like your back kick or helicopter turns..........

cheers,

G

 

[Reg Braithwaite]

Reg, you are very far away from worrying about CNS and Pulmonary toxicity at this stage in your diving career. While I appreciate the "buy once, buy right" approach to your equipment solutions, if you continue on the DIR path, the first of these issues you will face will be MOD/CNS considerations. Even then, unless you stray far outside the levels of conservatism GUE builds in to their Fundamental diver program, this should not be an issue. By the time you reach the stage in your diving career at which you start using higher ppo2's in your gases, your first computer/gauge choice will probably have worn out anywas..... By the time you need to worry about OTU's, you will probably have worn out your second computer/gauge............. Long story short, these calculations are very simple and not something you need a computer to do anyways. You will learn some GUE "battlefield calculations" that make them easy enough for someone from, say, Ontario to even do! BTW, merry Christmas and Happy New Year. Buy the Tec 2 G and move on to worrying about something else, like your back kick or helicopter turns..........

cheers,

G

Great response

For minimal deco diving, I agree that MOD is really my only operational concern. And thanks to DIR's standardized gasses and standardized MODs, there seems to be ridiculously little to worry about. Dive 32% to 100'. Dive 30/30 to 120'. Don't worry about 130' until Tech 1, which should be years from now--if ever.

I was really just curious. Trust me on this one: If I'm not willing to "pose" by wearing doubles I don't need, I won't be posing by wearing a trimix and CCR-capable dive computer either. The only actionable issue for me right now is that I am planning a trip South in a few months and I want to dive in the same configuration I'll be taking to GUE-F.

I already own a Suunto Gecko, which does not have a gauge mode. It probably won't lock me out if I stick to minimal deco dives, so I imagine can use it. I bought a bungee boot for it (see above). That being said, my wife doesn't own a computer, so I was vaguely thinking of buying myself a bottom timer/depth gauge and handing the Gecko down.

I also have the mechanical depth gauge that came in my now-discarded console. I was wondering about fashioning a boot for that and bungee-ing it to my arm. So swining to the other extreme from using a computer in gauge mode, what about using a depth gauge and timing the dive with the rotating bezel on an old-fashioned dive watch?

The failure mode on the watch is obviously failing to reset the bezel to "zero" when entering the water. I wasn't sure about the depth gauge. Is it accurate enough to work the one minute ascents?

 

[imasinker]

Actually, pure gauges are available to me. One of the LDS' in town has a Uwatec (or an Uwatec with an OMS label) in the display case for C$240(!) There's also a fellow selling one used for C$130 after one season on another board.
Before jumping on a "deal" or finding a much more affordable new unit, I did read that the batteries are irreplaceable, making the units disposable. Is that a concern relative to buying a computer with a gauge mode that has a replacable battery?

I also hav a concern about the display size. I am now far-sighted, so large digits are helpful when I am not wearing reading glasses.

So I did want some feedback on whether the Duo was a good alternative to an Uwatec.

Double check, OMS no longer sells the bottom timers, If it is an OMS your looking at , your likely not going to get a replacment if you have any problems or sevice.

 

[Bismark]

Great response

For minimal deco diving, I agree that MOD is really my only operational concern. And thanks to DIR's standardized gasses and standardized MODs, there seems to be ridiculously little to worry about. Dive 32% to 100'. Dive 30/30 to 120'. Don't worry about 130' until Tech 1, which should be years from now--if ever.

I was really just curious. Trust me on this one: If I'm not willing to "pose" by wearing doubles I don't need, I won't be posing by wearing a trimix and CCR-capable dive computer either. The only actionable issue for me right now is that I am planning a trip South in a few months and I want to dive in the same configuration I'll be taking to GUE-F.

I already own a Suunto Gecko, which does not have a gauge mode. It probably won't lock me out if I stick to minimal deco dives, so I imagine can use it. I bought a bungee boot for it (see above). That being said, my wife doesn't own a computer, so I was vaguely thinking of buying myself a bottom timer/depth gauge and handing the Gecko down.

I also have the mechanical depth gauge that came in my now-discarded console. I was wondering about fashioning a boot for that and bungee-ing it to my arm. So swining to the other extreme from using a computer in gauge mode, what about using a depth gauge and timing the dive with the rotating bezel on an old-fashioned dive watch?

The failure mode on the watch is obviously failing to reset the bezel to "zero" when entering the water. I wasn't sure about the depth gauge. Is it accurate enough to work the one minute ascents?

Don't worry about the "posing". A lot of us dive doubles for even recreational dives because we just like them. Might be more gas than we need for most of those dives, but lots of us are just used to them. Particularly in cold water. I used to slog some 130's around for these kind of dives but then put together a set of AL-80s and with a v-weight and a p weight and a heavy backplate, I don't need any additional weight and they trim out great. Dive what you want and let others worry about their judgements of others is my advice.

As for your other concerns, I don't think an analog depth gauge will give you accurate ascent rates, etc. I suggest if you can that you just bite the bullet and get a computer that has a gauge mode and that you can re-set for timing stops etc, underwater. The tec 2 G also gives you depth averaging which is handy also. I have a Suunto Vytec that also works but doesn't have a depth averaging feature that you can reset underwater. It is also more expensive I believe. If you are spending your hard earned cash on diving and not the gear, PM me and I will mail you an extra uwatec BT I have in my dive gear and you can either mail it back to me or give it to Dan at your Fundamentals class. Either way, no biggie. Let your wife use your Gecko and dive the bottom timer. I think this would be a better solution than trying to make your watch work in conjunction with your mechanical depth gauge.

 

[Bismark]

Come to think of it, I think I also have an extra D-3 around here that would also work for you. Smaller, has resettable timer function, and also doubles as a .....gasp.......watch!

 

[Meng_Tze]

I was whiling away a long Winter afternoon reading when I noticed that DiveRiteExpress sells both a Nitek Duo Dive Computer AND a Duo Digital Gauge:

NiTek and VR3 Dive Computers and Accessories

Of course, they are the exact same thing, a dive computer with a gauge mode for those who eschew the computer's model. They have two different web pages for marketing the Duo, and the Gauge version of the page has a picture of the optional bungee mount right up front.

It's still $150 more than a plain gauge in my LDS, but I have to admit they know how to flog it

While I'm here, just wanted to ask if anyone has thoughts about the Nitek Duo as a gauge only?

It is a fine piece of equipment. Solid and in gauge mode gives you what you need. It has a user replaceable battery and a reset button (in case of using it in computer mode/ lending to others etc, etc). I have used my Apeks Quantum (same as DUO but different name only) for at least 5 years now and it is still rock solid.