Vortex revisited

[doakc]

Something that Edd said during the "Disappeared" episode- said it was possible for someone to go farther than he did if they had no intention of coming back. Said they could have to take their tanks off and go through some tiny cracks. It was sort of conflicting- in one instance he stated that Ben is not in the cave. In another he said that he could be had he intended to commit suicide (ie, slip through a crack that he could not return from). Based on the evidence presented, I think this is the only logical conclusion. His car, money, and some diving gear was left at the dive site. People saw him enter the cave. He has never been seen since. Logically I have to conclude he verntured into an area that he had no intention of ever returning from. ** Note- not a diver, just someone really intrigued by the story after watching it on TV.

 

[Kevin Carlisle]

Something that Edd said during the "Disappeared" episode- said it was possible for someone to go farther than he did if they had no intention of coming back. Said they could have to take their tanks off and go through some tiny cracks. It was sort of conflicting- in one instance he stated that Ben is not in the cave. In another he said that he could be had he intended to commit suicide (ie, slip through a crack that he could not return from). Based on the evidence presented, I think this is the only logical conclusion. His car, money, and some diving gear was left at the dive site. People saw him enter the cave. He has never been seen since. Logically I have to conclude he verntured into an area that he had no intention of ever returning from. ** Note- not a diver, just someone really intrigued by the story after watching it on TV.

Since you dont know everything I will tell you a little bit about what you suggest. Edd said yes it would be possible, however if you were sitting with the Sheriffs dept and discussing the incident you would know that he still holds that NOBODY had been further than him in there in a very long time. This cave is limestone and is bright white. However you see the video its orangish brown, thats a bacteria growth. If someone went past it, it comes off very easy and takes months or more to come back. With that said, yes someone could have done that, but in reality we know that didnt happen.

 

[ianr33]

Something that Edd said during the "Disappeared" episode- said it was possible for someone to go farther than he did if they had no intention of coming back. Said they could have to take their tanks off and go through some tiny cracks. It was sort of conflicting- in one instance he stated that Ben is not in the cave. In another he said that he could be had he intended to commit suicide (ie, slip through a crack that he could not return from). Based on the evidence presented, I think this is the only logical conclusion. His car, money, and some diving gear was left at the dive site. People saw him enter the cave. He has never been seen since. Logically I have to conclude he verntured into an area that he had no intention of ever returning from. ** Note- not a diver, just someone really intrigued by the story after watching it on TV.

So where are the tanks he took off?

 

[ucfdiver]

Something that Edd said during the "Disappeared" episode- said it was possible for someone to go farther than he did if they had no intention of coming back. Said they could have to take their tanks off and go through some tiny cracks. It was sort of conflicting- in one instance he stated that Ben is not in the cave. In another he said that he could be had he intended to commit suicide (ie, slip through a crack that he could not return from). Based on the evidence presented, I think this is the only logical conclusion. His car, money, and some diving gear was left at the dive site. People saw him enter the cave. He has never been seen since. Logically I have to conclude he verntured into an area that he had no intention of ever returning from. ** Note- not a diver, just someone really intrigued by the story after watching it on TV.

I don't believe anyone actually saw him enter the cave on that day. The security cameras were inconclusive due to quality.

While Edd stated it might be possible, virgin cave is very obvious, even the best of divers will leave a mark or two. Looking at Ben's photos, I wouldn't put him in that category, so I would say there's no chance he went anywhere without leaving marks behind.

 

[boulderjohn]

The other comment I would make about this last possibility is that if I wanted to commit suicide, I would certainly not pick a method that is anything close to this. It would be hard to imagine a more horrible way to die than to be fully conscious and waiting for your air to run out, then having it run out while your body goes through its full stages of involuntary panic.

 

[mike_s]

Something that Edd said during the "Disappeared" episode- said it was possible for someone to go farther than he did if they had no intention of coming back. Said they could have to take their tanks off and go through some tiny cracks. It was sort of conflicting- in one instance he stated that Ben is not in the cave. In another he said that he could be had he intended to commit suicide (ie, slip through a crack that he could not return from). Based on the evidence presented, I think this is the only logical conclusion. His car, money, and some diving gear was left at the dive site. People saw him enter the cave. He has never been seen since. Logically I have to conclude he verntured into an area that he had no intention of ever returning from. ** Note- not a diver, just someone really intrigued by the story after watching it on TV.

Its' my understanding that if he did what you say above, and there there was a body decomposing that the recovery team would have been able to "smelled it"

the odors of decomposing material would have been detected by the divers. I asked "how can they do this with a mask on?" (since the nose is not in the water) and was told that it would easily enter the ear cavity which is connected to the nasal cavities and still be highly detectable.


Now I've not experienced this as most of us don't "dive in caves with dead bodies". But Edd and the crew that did the recovery searches have the experience and I think most of us here rely on and trust that experience.

So I think that could easily be ruled out.

And as the body decomposed more, it would have been "definite hits" by the Cadaver dogs on all occasions (in my opinion).

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Since you dont know everything I will tell you a little bit about what you suggest. Edd said yes it would be possible, however if you were sitting with the Sheriffs dept and discussing the incident you would know that he still holds that NOBODY had been further than him in there in a very long time. This cave is limestone and is bright white. However you see the video its orangish brown, thats a bacteria growth. If someone went past it, it comes off very easy and takes months or more to come back. With that said, yes someone could have done that, but in reality we know that didnt happen.

I had that same conversation with Edd last year when I was down there. He sounded pretty convinced that nobody had been through that crack in a very long time ... if ever. I think the way things get edited for TV production sometimes takes comments out of context and makes them seem to say something completely different than was intended.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[doakc]

As far as diving goes, I know nothing. And I am not looking to argue, I am discussing a tragic incident that has sparked some intrigue. The tanks I would assume are on the other side as well (with his body and everything else). Can't argue the bacteria part as I know nothing about diving. Question- how come Edd didn't bring a camera? Too tight of an area? Did that woman who went after him make it all the way to the end? The disappeared episode implied that the shovel was Ben's and the family doubted anyone had gone as far as she did. Since nobody else found the shovel.

 

[mike_s]

I don't believe anyone actually saw him enter the cave on that day. The security cameras were inconclusive due to quality.

several media reports stated that Eduardo saw him enter and even went back and unlocked the gate for him that day.

Question- how come Edd didn't bring a camera? Too tight of an area?

Edd wasn't there to take pictures... he was there to find a body and retrieve it.

The disappeared episode implied that the shovel was Ben's and the family doubted anyone had gone as far as she did. Since nobody else found the shovel.

read post #201 of this thread.

57writer stated:

Just to be clear: neither Jill Heinerth nor Paul Heinerth told anyone it was Ben's shovel. It was simply a shovel located near the back of the cave. No markings, no name. It could have been there a year - or a week. They did not retrieve it. They showed the entire video to law enforcement.

They also said that they didn't go back as far as Ed did.

It was actually Paul Heinerth who spotted the shovel while he and Jill were filming their search. It was pretty far in the cave BUT NOT as far back as Edd went. I haven't seen the "Disappeared" program yet, so I can't be more specific about how they used that footage or the whole shovel idea. There is no evidence that it was Ben's shovel, but his family really latched onto that theory, even when we sat there and told them it was inconclusive. I think they had some pictures of Ben with a shovel rigged to his gear. Ben McDaniel was not the only person in the world to cave dive with a folding shovel.

Kevin C. or Eduardo can probably answer the shovel question???

 

[doakc]

Yes, everything I read (and saw) was that Eduardo stated he opened the gate for him to go in.