Was this Instructor right or wrong ?

[bubblesjw]

PADI open water class, first night in the pool. The Divemaster notices a student wearing his mask on his forehead and asks him to remove it, while starting to explain the reasons for requesting that it be removed. The Instructor (a recent NAUI crossover) hearing this, stops the entire class, stops the Divemaster, and proceeds in reprimanding the Divemaster in front of the entire class, stating that there is nothing wrong with wearing a mask on your forehead. The Divemaster is then told (in front of the class) that this class will be allowed to place thier masks on thier foreheads, and that the Divemaster will stop telling students to remove the masks. Is the Divemaster right oe wrong in being upset over this? Was the Instructor right or wrong in forcing his personal beliefs on a PADI Divemaster and Open Water class?

 

[padiscubapro]

PADI open water class, first night in the pool. The Divemaster notices a student wearing his mask on his forehead and asks him to remove it, while starting to explain the reasons for requesting that it be removed. The Instructor (a recent NAUI crossover) hearing this, stops the entire class, stops the Divemaster, and proceeds in reprimanding the Divemaster in front of the entire class, stating that there is nothing wrong with wearing a mask on your forehead. The Divemaster is then told (in front of the class) that this class will be allowed to place thier masks on thier foreheads, and that the Divemaster will stop telling students to remove the masks. Is the Divemaster right oe wrong in being upset over this? Was the Instructor right or wrong in forcing his personal beliefs on a PADI Divemaster and Open Water class?

The instructor was wrong in two cases..
ONE:
If the instructor is teaching a PADI class he should be following all PADI methodologies regardless of what he FEELS is right.. PADI isn;t the only agency that teaches a mask on the forehead is a sign of stress.. Thats why many Tech instructors, teach their students, if they want to place their mask on their forehead it should be turned around.. This way it can be clearly seen it was a deliberate calm action. not one of someone in panic.

TWO
If the instructor had a tbl with the DM it should have been discussed in private.. He did not act professionally.

If I was the DM I would write PADI.. The instructor needs some QA councelling..

 

[NC myerssl]

FYI,

Both PADI and NAUI instructors are trained to teach the students not to wear the mask on the forehead.

The instructor was just wrong. He should have known and taught that the mask on the forehead was a sign of distress, and he should have had the tact to discuss his differences with the DM outside of the class.

Confusion/debate among the leaders in a class, will only cause more confusion and non-conformity by the students.

 

[SadiesMom]

PADI open water class, first night in the pool. The Divemaster notices a student wearing his mask on his forehead and asks him to remove it, while starting to explain the reasons for requesting that it be removed. The Instructor (a recent NAUI crossover) hearing this, stops the entire class, stops the Divemaster, and proceeds in reprimanding the Divemaster in front of the entire class, stating that there is nothing wrong with wearing a mask on your forehead. The Divemaster is then told (in front of the class) that this class will be allowed to place thier masks on thier foreheads, and that the Divemaster will stop telling students to remove the masks. Is the Divemaster right oe wrong in being upset over this? Was the Instructor right or wrong in forcing his personal beliefs on a PADI Divemaster and Open Water class?

As a DM, I'd be extremely upset with the instructor for reprimanding me in front of the students for telling them something that PADI clearly teaches not to do (whether or not the instructor thinks it's stupid in his personal opinion).

By reprimanding a DM in front of the class, he's undermined the DM's authority with the students and basically showed them that the DM isn't to be trusted as a dive professional. I'd have a talk with the instructor (when I calmed down - which in my case might take me a couple of days ) and if he didn't understand his error and apologize, I wouldn't be working with that instructor again - even if that meant not finishing that class [clarification - I would've finished that *session* but not the rest of the pool sessions if the instructor didn't see the light]. I only work with instructors who treat me with respect.

There's also the issue of PADI QA that the DM may want to address. I know that some PADI instructors *do* feel that the "no mask on the forehead" rule is silly and more for avoiding losing a mask rather than indicating panic, but from what I've seen they will still *teach* it, but some will tell students that what they do *after* the students are certified is up to them....

 

[tedtim]

If I was the DM I would write PADI.. The instructor needs some QA councelling..

If I was the DM I would have told the instructor:

"Have a nice day, just not today"

Then I would have left the pool. It would have been interesting if the instructor was then left with no DM and too many students to deal with on his/her own.

 

[markfm]

Boorish behavior on both sides doesn't reflect well, and if there were indeed a large class would shaft the students, totally undeservedly. Divers are generally upbeat, fun, types.
If I ran into something like that, hopefully I'd try the talk-in-private-afterwards approach.

(A good goal, if sometimes tough to achieve. I'm admittedly a proud Irishman, opinionated (surprise, ehh ), but at least try to allow that other people may actually be having a bad day.)

 

[MikeFerrara]

I agree that the discussion should have been a private one.

Allowing students to wear masks on their forheads is not a violation of any trianing standards that existed when I was teaching PADI classes so the instructor is at liberty to make that decision. The instructor is "pilot in command" so to speak and both he and the assistants need to make sure that every one knows what's expected of them.

 

[tedtim]

Boorish behavior on both sides doesn't reflect well, and if there were indeed a large class would shaft the students, totally undeservedly. Divers are generally upbeat, fun, types.

Sorry, but I disagree. If the instructor was the type to denigrate someone who:
a. is there to assist them
b. is there in an upaid capacity
c. was explaining what they were taught in a non-confrontational way

The Divemaster notices a student wearing his mask on his forehead and asks him to remove it, while starting to explain the reasons for requesting that it be removed.

I would leave the area without question. The action of the instructor to:

...stops the entire class, stops the Divemaster, and proceeds in reprimanding the Divemaster in front of the entire class, stating that there is nothing wrong with wearing a mask on your forehead. The Divemaster is then told (in front of the class) that this class will be allowed to place thier masks on thier foreheads, and that the Divemaster will stop telling students to remove the masks.

was so absolutely unprofessional. If I were a student on that course I would have left the pool and asked the LDS to put me on a course with a different instructor.

The discussion in private would have come later. Just what faith and respect would the students have in the DM if the instructor chooses to reprimand them for something as silly as this. To me, this is a pure example of the instructor stating that he/she is in total control and really have no need for a DM in the first place. There is no place of instructors of this kind, anywhere.

Nobody, not instructor, not DM, not student should have to put up with this. I thought this kind of "teaching by embarassment" was long ago abandoned.

 

[tedtim]

The instructor is "pilot in command" so to speak and both he and the assistants need to make sure that every one knows what's expected of them.

This should be done before the class. I taught crew resource management to aircrew. The type of "pilot in command" that is a dictator is the most dangerous type. Using intimidation in a cockpit increases the risk of something going wrong. Did you know that in some airlines the co-pilots are allowed "no bid" to fly with some aircraft captains because of this type of behaviour?

Using intimidation in an open water class is just as bad.

Yes, I have flown with a few of these type when I was a co-pilot. In the early part of my career I was either too stupid, to scared, or too intimidated to speak up. The culture would not support it. A DM is not a servant of an instructor, despite all of the jokes about "carrying my equipment." Fortunately, the instructor on my DM course did not have the attitude that he was superior.

 

[deepdiver2005]

Although there is no clear rule against warring a mask on the forehead, PADI recommends not doing so, as it is the recognized sign of a tired diver. Placing the mask in reverse is what I ask my students to do (should they really need to), a practice I teach in my teaching technical classes.
However the attitude of the instructor is totally unacceptable. His actions create confusion with the students.
Looks like the DM acted more professionally than the instructor. Not walking away from the class was only for the benefit of student’s safety. The instructor should be a role model to DMs. This is definitely not the right way.
The DM should raise the issue with PADI.