Weight and body image

[Potapko]

Well. might as well throw my .02 in here. You can throw it out later

We Americans are unique people. We are proud of our country and culture. We live in the best country in the world and have the best of everything. Best technology, best doctors, best hospitals, best attitudes, best homes, best cars, best restaurants........(ALL said tongue in cheek) We think very highly of ourselves

Example: On standardized tests for mathmatics we score (on the whole) one of the worst out of all industrialized nations. When asked how we feel about our performance, we rate number one. We may be the worst at something, but we feel great about it

We have a very inflated view of ourselves imo. This includes our body image. Notwithstanding health issues which have already been discussed, we are an overweight nation. We may be the fatest people in the world, but we feel great about it. We justify it. We excuse it and tend to blame it on someone else. On our parents, on Mcdonalds, on society, pick a scapegoat if you like. I am also overweight, no-one is responsible for that other than me.
No-one can change that besides me. I have lost and gained weight several times in my life. I always feel better physically and emotionally when I am in better shape. I can do two things, justify my condition, tell myself I do not care and it does not matter, or I can change my eating and exercise habits and get down to where I need to be in order to be healthier and live better. Maybe not even longer but certainly better.

Perhaps I should post some of this over on the "IRKs" thread I do hate to see our collective lack of willingness to take responsibility for our lives, health, and future.

More could be said, but this is probably too much,
DP

 

[divemistress]

The main point I was trying to put across is that if you have a friend or family member that is overweight than family and friends should care enough to say "Hey I'm concerned. I think you may have a problem. If you want help I'll be there for you."

Hear, hear! What a an act of love to offer to truly help a friend or family member with their problems! What a difficult task to know when to gently persist if the offer is declined -- when to insist on taking away the car keys, when if ever to arrange an intervention. What a difficult task to learn when to back off, to accept a loved one's "no" and hope that one day s/he will change.

I once knew a high school girl who at 15 was very slender. By the time she graduated at 17, she had gained about 90 lbs. Her parents never said a word to her about her weight gaiin. No one did, neither family nor friends.

She lost most of the weight by the time she graduated college. Since then, she's always wondered how someone could watch another human being implode and not lift a single finger to prevent, or minimize, the wreckage.

(Jason, As for my earlier post: My words were aimed into the atmosphere, not at you personally. Reading this thread in its entirety gave me a headache. Some posters' arguments and opinions seemed to disappear into quicksand, only to re-emerge into an entirely different form. IMO.)

DM

 

[BacardiSpice]

She lost most of the weight by the time she graduated college. Since then, she's always wondered how someone could watch another human being implode and not lift a single finger to prevent, or minimize, the wreckage

I can understand why she would feel that way. It must be hard to understand why those who profess to love you do nothing in response to a health problem. If she had developed a tumour, for example, someone would have urged her to have it checked out. If she had suddenly started drinking excessively, someone would probably have mentioned it to her. There's so much baggage with weight, and it's tied up so closely with image and esteem issues, that we seem reluctant to treat it as we would other healt related issues. It's also subjective - people's weight often fluctuates. My comments in this thread have been directed more towards the extreme end of the scale - not with folks who are carrying some extra pounds that they'd like to shed for cosmetic or fitness issues, or that they are perfectly comfortable with.

As I've indicated, I'm grappling with the 'intervention' issue with someone very close to me, as are other friends. We discussed it at length, and we just don't know how to address it in the most constructive way. We're still working through how we, as friends, can most effectively work through it. It's a bitter contradiction - we should say something because we love this person dearly. But we don't want to inflict pain on her, or have her feel that we are sitting in judgement on her, looking down on her, or that we see her as anything less than a fantastic individual. I would hope that our friendship is such that she knows we all adore her, and I think it is...but it's a painful and unpleasant thing to possibly inflict pain on someone you love, even if it's for the best. Look at the reactions in this thread - even when comments are made about obesity and health issues in general, and not directed at specific individuals, people are affronted because they feel that they have been attacked or judged. And I can understand why, which is why I'm half regretful I ever expressed an opinion at all - I don't want anyone here thinking that I feel some sort of moral superiority because I'm commenting on weight.

There are so many esteem and judgement issues that are tied up with how we interpret obesity, and the moral values that have been linked to excessive weight (e.g., the view of some that obesity is indicative of laziness, greed, undisciplined consumption, etc). We also have the media all around us interpreting weight through a distorted lense - how odd was it when poor Rene Zellweger lamented feeling grossly overweight for being a Size 12 in 'Bridget Jones' Diary'? She looked perfectly normal to me! And the ongoing saga of Kate Winslett's weight...when 'Titanic' came out, a lot of people spoke about how gorgeous she even though she wasn't Hollywood thin - she looked like a real woman. But if you'd put her on the street, she still would have been slimmer than your average Jane Doe.

I mentioned in this thread that one of my mates had no problems confronting me when she thought I was bulemic during a period in which I lost a lot of weight - she's a blunt person, and she came right out and asked me. I was a little bit surprised, but was in no way offended...I appreciated the concern (of course, it might have been different had there been any truth in the suggestion). Others tiptoed around my weight loss, and a few made tentative comments.

I value the independence of the individual, and believe in has taking charge of our own lives. I have a strong opinion that there is a problem with obesity in certain Western World nations, but I don't have such a strong opinion on how to address it. I don't want to see government dictating to people how they should manage their health. I can also understand that with some people, suggesting that they need to lose weight is going to be counter-productive. I suppose different approaches are going to work with different personalities - for some people, gentle and supportive words from loved ones may be enough. For others, perhaps it's the other extreme of 'tough love'. Perhaps most have to make the decision themselves - once it's made, you can support them in many ways. But they themselves have to decide it's time.

Another important issue addressed in posts above is the need to understand the psychological roots of why an individual overeats (if that is indeed the problem, rather than an underlying medical reason), and address that. I have a theory why my friend medicates herself with food, for example, but she would probably need to see a professional to really get to the bottom of it. And the idea of crash diets - and even diets in general - is one that should be discarded in favour of healthy lifestyle changes. Even small changes can make a huge difference. It needs to be a healthy regime that the person can live with - not just until the extra weight is shifted.

I'd like to offer, if not quite an apology, then at least a clarification for anyone who I might have offended with my opinions in this thread. Please don't think I would presume to sit in judgement on you as a human being in any sense because I've made some comments about a health problem we face as a society. Weight is not linked to one's worth as an individual (if that were so, then we'd all have to acknowledge the moral superiority of the next person we met who was even a few pounds lighter ). Anyone who thinks they can look down on another human because they weigh more is a pea-wit. Nor - as has been stated often in this thread - does slimness equate to fitness. Weight is only one facet of our health, and must be viewed in the context of the whole.

 

[Moogyboy]

Incidentally, I would like to pipe in once again: has anyone noticed the recent, and thoroughly predictable, extreme upsurge in weight-loss ads in the wake of these recent findings/proclamations/whatever from the medical community? I groan every time I go to Yahoo! because I know that I'm gonna get either an obnoxious online-dating ad featuring typical-personal-ad-placer "Erin" (and as a side note, who the hell is this "Erin", and does she even exist outside of Photoshop?) or an obnoxious weight-loss ad featuring what we are probably supposed to imagine the other 80% of "Erin" looks like. The most offensive ones are those with the before/after photos. Ugh. It supports my suspicion that a good portion of this obesity scare and accompanying weight-loss craze are the creation of marketing suits. I seethe with contempt.

Ironically, this at a time that, as I hear it, the Atkins Diet is being discredited left and right, and those responsible for things like low-carb beer and low-carb frozen fettucini alfredo are poised to be stranded on that bandwagon. Good riddance. Another unassailable and highly lucrative health panacea on its way down the drain. Remember oat bran?

cheers

Billy S.

 

[astrl]

Whether or not Atkins is being discredited is another discussion... most journalism isn't based on facts these days, anyway.

Personally, I think most people know what practices are detrimental to one's health already. As someone that has lost a lot of weight, I can tell you that people in that situation often feel trapped because nothing they try seems to work. All of us that have lost the weight knew exactly how overweight we were and didn't need anyone to remind us of the fact.

I will point someone in the same direction that has been positive for me only IF they ask me about. And my solution will not be the correct solution for everyone.

I'm not a big fan of smoking, but I don't rail on the smokers every time I see them smoking before or after a dive. I know it's bad for their health... they know it's bad for their health. But if they don't want to change, nothing I can say will change their mind.

As for how I view those divers... as I would anyone. I am always glad to meet new friends.

Just my 2 cents.

astrl

 

[Scubaguy62]

Well. might as well throw my .02 in here. You can throw it out later

We Americans are unique people. We are proud of our country and culture. We live in the best country in the world and have the best of everything. Best technology, best doctors, best hospitals, best attitudes, best homes, best cars, best restaurants........(ALL said tongue in cheek) We think very highly of ourselves

Example: On standardized tests for mathmatics we score (on the whole) one of the worst out of all industrialized nations. When asked how we feel about our performance, we rate number one. We may be the worst at something, but we feel great about it

We have a very inflated view of ourselves imo. This includes our body image. Notwithstanding health issues which have already been discussed, we are an overweight nation. We may be the fatest people in the world, but we feel great about it. We justify it. We excuse it and tend to blame it on someone else. On our parents, on Mcdonalds, on society, pick a scapegoat if you like. I am also overweight, no-one is responsible for that other than me.
No-one can change that besides me. I have lost and gained weight several times in my life. I always feel better physically and emotionally when I am in better shape. I can do two things, justify my condition, tell myself I do not care and it does not matter, or I can change my eating and exercise habits and get down to where I need to be in order to be healthier and live better. Maybe not even longer but certainly better.

Perhaps I should post some of this over on the "IRKs" thread I do hate to see our collective lack of willingness to take responsibility for our lives, health, and future.

More could be said, but this is probably too much,
DP

Very well said DP!!!!

I happen to be in the same group; about 35 lbs overweight, and only myself to blame for it. And the worse part about it, we're likely not to do anything lest we have some sort of "wake up call." (mine came last night)

As far as the upsurge of TV diet programs and videos that has flooded this nation, I think of it this way; it's mostly (and I do mean mostly because some of them do work) a scam and a way of making money thriving on the misfortunes of others. I'm probably as guilty as many for trying some of these programs, but in all honesty, there is no diet in the world, or no exercise program in the world that, by itself, will yield results exempt from the yo-yo effect. Just look at former president Clinton...ran God knows how many miles per day and ended up with heart bypass due to his poor diet.

Until we realize that we need more nutrirional education, a nutritional program (I don't like to call them diets, as the word diet has somewhat of a negative connotation to it), and some form of exercise program are necessary parts of our lifestyle (i.e. don't drive across the street to get a salad for lunch, walk across the street), we will continue to be the nation with the greatest percentage of self made overweight people in the world.

 

[scuba_luv]

What makes it especially hard on her is that in her case I don't think it's from eating, but rather from a thyroid disorder she has. She takes medication for it, but I don't think it helps with her weight. I doubt she could get thin even if she wanted to (and she doesn't...she is vehemently anti-dieting).

Perhaps part of the problem is the stereotype that excessive weight is necessarily caused by overeating, which suggests lack of will, "it's their own fault," etc. Inher case that isn't true as far as I know.

The best way to deal with "media messages" is to ignore the media. That's extremely difficult with television, every women's mag shouting out in the grocery store, and for goodness sakes even what's in movie theaters.
Still, it may help to take stock of the attitudes of people who know her and how they feel. Real people should count for a lot more than anonymous media and stereotypes. It's very hard to fight a stereotype, but as long as you have real people in your life who know and support you both then it takes off a lot of stress. She doesn't have to take on the media and stereotype monster - she just needs to be as healthy as she can be (and that's not a code for immediatly losing n pounds - I just mean keep taking her doctor's advice and doing whatever she needs to keep herself healthy and strong).
One of the biggest challenges for all Americans today is putting the media in its proper place - where we aren't unduly influenced. That may mean giving up TV (it's not as hard as you think). Or never picking up a women's mag (not going to single any out here) and flipping through to see what none of us will ever look like.

 

[Scubaguy62]

One of the biggest challenges for all Americans today is putting the media in its proper place - where we aren't unduly influenced.

I agree with this. Knowledge is power, and the more we know, the better we can protect ourselves and our families. However,

That may mean giving up TV (it's not as hard as you think). Or never picking up a women's mag (not going to single any out here) and flipping through to see what none of us will ever look like.

This is no different than the Ostrich hiding its head and leaving the whole body out. If knowledge is power, and knowledge comes from what we learn from outside sources, then power comes from what we learn from outside sources. So, if we cut these sources out, how much power will we have? There is more power in being able to discern what is credible and what is not, than there is in just cutting it all out of our lives. We empower ourselves when we take ownership of our actions and admit to ourselves that WE dictate our own successes and shortcomings.

Just my .02 psi

 

[jewelrox1]

people with overweight issues are not alone in the low self confidence department.i am 5 foot 7 and around 99-100 pounds and am 16 years old..i eat healthy and everything but, ppl make comments to me like "are u anorexic?"...its just as painful as being called fat...also, becuz of my weight, i am also flat and am not very confident in skirts...its terrible.ppl should just accept that not everyone is perfect and leave eachother alone..its all inside that counts!

 

[H2Andy]

jewelrox1, you are correct, but even people who look STUNNING to you are not
immune in the low self confidence department.

low self esteem is about how you see yourself, not about reality. you would be
surprised what distorted self-images some people you would consider "beautiful" have.

on the other hand, i know people no one would consider
"attractive" (either through physical deformity or just lack of
good looks) who have very high self esteem.


i love this definition of self-esteem (by Nathanial Brandon,
"Six Pillars of Self-Esteem"):

"Self esteem is the disposition of oneself to experience oneself
as competent to cope with the basic challenges of life
and as worthy of happiness."


he's on to something, i tell you...