Weight and body image

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Ishie:
Because from personal experience, I can tell you that it doesn't work. All pushing someone (vs. being supportive for them and helping them) does is makes them feel like they are failing themselves AND someone else. The feeling of being a fat failure (again from personal experience) is extremely contraproductive to accomplishing anything. It leads to a shame spiral where often a person stops feeling they even deserve to be thin/healthy/whatever or may feel they're too much of a loser to every accomplish their goals. I love my mother whether she is fat or thin and don't want her to ever question whether I would love her "better" thinner

Ishie
Hallo Ishie -

You're expressing some of the problems I'm experiencing with my close friend. I've never discussed the problem with her, even when it has meant that she was physically suffering during an overseas trip with me or because her broken ankle refuses to heal. I would hate her to think that I pity her, look down on her, or think of her as anything less than the person she is because of the weight issue. I find stereotypes about the overweight deeply offensive as they perpetuate misconceptions that these individuals are lazy, lack self-discipline, are greedy, are of lesser intelligence, etc etc. She's one of the most whip-smart, generous and self-disciplined people I know...I wish I had the motivation to put in the hours of work she does, seven days a week.

We're there if she turns to us for specific help, we encourage every healthy lifestyle change she contemplates, and we love her unconditionally. But I'm still terrified of losing her prematurely and wishing I'd said something more specific. Still, it's not my place.
 
cdiver2:
Your choice weather to dive with your buddy or not, his choice weather to lose the weight or not. It would not be right for you to keep telling him to lose weight just as it would not be right for him to insist that he dive with you at his present weight, you have given him the choice no need to say anything else unless he asks to dive with you again.
Sorry about the way your wife is treated as I have said in other posts non of there business fat or thin.


I'll still dive with my buddy. He is a damn good diver and has been diving much longer than myself. He is not a heart attack waiting to happen but as you go into the deeper diving and using multiple gasses, task loading and loading your tissues with nitrogen and helium to the hilt than weight (fat tissues) are a factor. Anyone who tells you different is only kidding himself or herself. I have nothing against large people and it appears that some larger divers have taken offense to either my comments or others comments. I consider my dive buddy as a dear friend. And as a friend I care about his well-being. When we as a group of buddies sat down and talked to him about his weight he didn't get his a#s up and say Fine you don't want to dive with me it's your loss" He said "You know what you're right. I do need to loose weight." He also took me to the side later and thanked me for caring.

The story of my wife although true was put in there to show that weight prejudice occurs on both sides of the fence. Although small all her life she has only been healthy in the last 4 years after becoming active and putting on a few pounds of healthy muscle. PS: please don’t tell her I said that. I don’t what to be beaten tonight. LOL

Jason
 
I agree that it should not be an issue as far as acceptance goes BUT I do have an issue with some of the fat acceptance folks as they basically reject the scientific proof that obesity is harmful to their health and therby encourage obesity. BTW, I have several family member that are ow. I love them all the same but I do worry about their health. for example, an overweight woman is over 30% more likely to develop breast cancer, twice as likely to have high blood pressure thereby tripling your chance of a heart attack. (the latter also goes for men) just something to think about.
 
Kennedydive:
The story of my wife although true was put in there to show that weight prejudice occurs on both sides of the fence. Although small all her life she has only been healthy in the last 4 years after becoming active and putting on a few pounds of healthy muscle. PS: please don’t tell her I said that. I don’t what to be beaten tonight. LOL

Jason
Ouch! I can sympathise with her! I've seen this in action - some people who wouldn't dream of being rude enough to comment on someone who was a bit heavy feel quite free to tell someone that they're too thin! Even though I'll never, ever be a stick, I lost a few pounds a while back when I was in training for racing, and came back home after having been away for some months. I was told by family and friends that I looked 'frail', and that under no circumstances was I to lose more weight. I was even a bit sick one night, and was confronted by a concerned friend who asked bluntly if I was bulemic (I appreciated her concern but told her I absolutely was not). In point of fact I monitor my health carefully and could tell them that I was well within my healthy weight range and was eating around 3,000 calories a day to fuel the training.

Sounds like your wife is experiencing envy - I've heard some very catty comments about slim women I know (accusations of everything from bulemia to drugs).
 
Kennedydive:
When I first started dating her I was asked by a few other females if she was anorexic.

Once upon a time when I was much younger I was nearly put on report for my BMI being too low. It was not long after I joined the army and I was involved in competitive sports at the time. As I said, that was a long time ago. Due to various medications, I have my own small struggles with weight from time to time. A little challenge of my own.

I don't believe anyone here has said they wouldn't dive with someone for being overweight. I know I didn't and if something I did write was misconstrued I sincerely apologize because it's not what I meant. For one thing, anyone who is diving is in fact doing something as opposed to nothing and is likely as fit or more so than most stick people.

I take much of this to heart because of my sister and no I've never said a word to her but mom & I have talked. Like Bacardispice and her friend, I worry and I wish I could express that to her without hurting or offending her but I don't know how. I fear that she won't be around to see her daughter grow into the wonderful person she is teaching her to be. And btw, I'm not talking about a little ow in this case.
 
BacardiSpice:
G'day Cdiver2!

Ayup - both your country and mine are still free (or relatively so). And I've said several times - and firmly believe - that the decision to do or not do anything about aspects of their health belongs firmly with the individual (unless it impacts on others, e.g. via a communicable disease or drinking and driving). That's why I've said - repeatedly - that it comes down to individual responsibility. It is ultimately up to individuals to look after their health and fitness, and for parents to look after their kids. That doesn't mean that other institutions don't have a role - education in schools, physical activity programs for kids, etc etc. But the bottom line is, no one should force you. There's a difference between encouragement, education and research and the alternative of coercion.

I don't know why advertising and setting national health targets for exercise and so on are not working -as I've said, I don't know the answers. That's one reason why I came to this thread...it's an issue that worries me, and I'd like to find a way of addressing it that doesn't involve fines or penalties for those that don't conform, but effectively reduces - or at least slows! - the increasing rates of obesity and related health issues. I think it is a very valid point that people don't appreciate being told what to do - I've said that I'd react negatively if anyone ordered me to either lose or gain weight. If I smoked or drank to excess, I might also react in a negative way.

I should note that current tactics are not working - not by a long shot. If the USA, Britain and Australia continue as they are now, the predictions for the year 2050 are nothing short of chilling. Look at the diabetes rate alone.


If you feel that people are trying to dictate to you how to live your life through this thread, then I can understand why you feel affronted by it. Please be assured that I am not trying to force my beliefs on you - I too come here to talk about diving. This thread, however, is in a specific area allocated 'Women's Views: Non Diving Related', and the original post asked some questions about weight and body image. I responded with my opinion because the issues raised touched upon some very deep fears I have for an obese friend. I also noted that I have no time for body-facists and those who would impose an unachievable ideal, or try to force people to look a certain way. This is my opinion only - not a manifesto for imposing taxes for every pound a person ways over their supposedly 'ideal' weight.

I know nothing about your health - I've never met you, and I don't know what your fitness level is. I wouldn't presume to tell you personally that you need to lose weight or exercise more (as I said in this thread, I don't even know how to approach one of my best friends with the support she needs). A very valid point that has been raised several times in this thread is that thinness does not necessarily mean fitness, nor does carrying extra weight mean that one is necessarily unfit. Clearly you engage in physical activity - you're a diver for starters. Whether your weight is affecting your health is something only you and your doctor (or anyone else you trust) can determine.

I have simply offered my opinion on what I believe is a major health issue facing us in general. I'm commenting on national trends and on individual cases that affect me personally - I am not pitying anyone, or telling a stranger that they are unfit and need to change their lifestyle. That is up to them. I am saying that several Western countries really need to take a good, hard look at where we're heading as a society, because it's going to cost us in more than just the hip pocket if we don't arrest national obesity trends.


Yes, there are discrepencies. But we're looking at a problem of vast and very frightening proportions that is having an ever increasing impact on our health care resources. The World Bank has estimated the cost of obesity currently in the U.S. at 12 percent of the national health care budget. According to a report by the US Department of Health and Human Resources, direct and indirect costs related to obesity cost $99 billion dollars. By 2000, that figure had jumped to an estimated $117 billion dollars. If current trends continued, it has been estimated that by 2020 one in every five health care dollars for people aged 50-69 will be spent on obesity related medical problems. It has been estimated that the number of diabetes sufferers will increase 165% by the year 2050!


I'm all for drawing on professional advice - it's what I'm basing my views upon. However, you say there is 'enough advertising' - what is enough? And is 'advertising' the most effective approach? As I said before, this approach is not working. We need to try something else - and I think we should all be engaged in the discussion as to what else. I'm not offering an answer - I'm offering questions and discussion.

I agree with you that there are other health care and population problems, and I also abhor intolerance. Neither of these, however, negates the alarming implications of national obesity problems.

I really don't like talking to you...every time I see your name I WANT ONE, I'm going to become a lush if I continue talking to you :11:

I think Ishie in post #38 puts the point across a lot better than I have done in all these posts. I am all for helping anyone that asks/welcomes it. Thats why I responded to this post in the first place to let others know we don't all look down on them I see past the size. As a smoker I am bombarded daily with people telling me it is not good for me and the last thing I/we need is for it to continue in the privacy of our homes, Yes it hurts every time we read dirty habit, fat people. If you look back in this thread and see all the posts referencing how much they are costing us now its become not only are we fat, undesirable but also a burden this train of thought is counter productive to the desired goal,
If everything is negative then you will get negative.
Maybe this is something a shrink could address how to approach someone about weight loss/smoking in a positive way and reinforce it without putting the recipient on the defense.
Me 55 years young 5'10" 215lbs and could be in better shape. After 2yrs in and out of hospital 3 ops and a suspicious stroke I feel totally worn out, but I think the last op is the last one.
I am going to be writing about prostate cancer you may want to read that one.
Right now I'm going to get of this soap box and get myself a coconut rum and coke, see what you have done I'll send you the bill when I get dry-ed out :D
 
I really don't like talking to you...every time I see your name I WANT ONE, I'm going to become a lush if I continue talking to you
Lol! Pity me, then, Cdiver2...I love 'em, but here in Oz they don't sell either Morgan's or Barcardi Spiced Rum. Everytime someone comes in from either the UK or the US it's the one thing I ask from duty free!
When I first started dating her I was asked by a few other females if she was anorexic.
Eeep, KennedyDive. Somehow I don't think they were commenting from a genuine concern for her health, either.

Procyon,
I take much of this to heart because of my sister and no I've never said a word to her but mom & I have talked. Like Bacardispice and her friend, I worry and I wish I could express that to her without hurting or offending her but I don't know how. I fear that she won't be around to see her daughter grow into the wonderful person she is teaching her to be. And btw, I'm not talking about a little ow in this case.
I hope all our concerns come to nothing and those we love live long and healthy lives :frown:
 
Bacardispice
The next time I go to PNG if we come through Sydney you have got one.
Procyon
Sorry to hear about your sister I know where you are coming from. My daughter was way overweight until she reached 16 then all of a sudden she became another person and not a word to anyone, I know call her skinny and she loves it,
 
cdiver2:
As a smoker I am bombarded daily with people telling me it is not good for me <snip>
If everything is negative then you will get negative.

<snip>

Me 55 years young 5'10" 215lbs and could be in better shape. After 2yrs in and out of hospital 3 ops and a suspicious stroke I feel totally worn out, but I think the last op is the last one.
I am going to be writing about prostate cancer you may want to read that one.
Right now I'm going to get of this soap box and get myself a coconut rum and coke, see what you have done I'll send you the bill when I get dry-ed out :D

So...for the record.

Smoker
Drinker (heavy??? I don't know what to take as exaggeration)
Overweight by at least 40 lbs
Recent Stoke (assume you are likely on blood thinners etc. for high blood pressure)
Multiple trips to the OR (Stroke related?)
Prostate Cancer

And the attitude that people who care about your health and are doing what they can to try to get you to make some new lifestyle choices are just continuing to feed you negativity which won't help you.

So...I guess my question is...what is it going to take for YOU to decide that some lifestyle changes are in order. What is it going to take to flip the switch in your head which makes you say "hey...life is worth living, this hospital stuff is a major drag and I want to be around to share it with my friends and family."? What sort of positive reinforcement do you think would start you down the right path. Does it come from within? Or is it something from outside? If it is indeed from within...what is holding you back from deciding that enough is enough...my body is telling me something...and even if I don't want to hear it...perhaps if I listen...I'll actually feel better...one step at a time.
 
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