What do you do ...

[MXGratefulDiver]

With due apologies to Shel Silverstein ...

What do you do with a dumb-ass diver,
What do you do with a dumb-ass diver,
What do you do with a dumb-ass diver,
Earl-eye in the morning!

Walk away and pretend ya don't know him,
Walk away and pretend ya don't know him,
Walk away and pretend ya don't know him,
'Cuz he is so boring!

Talk about why you don't like what he's doing,
Talk about why you don't like what he's doing,
Talk about why you don't like what he's doing,
His mindset you're exploring!

Put him on report for the Captain's ire,
Put him on report for the Captain's ire,
Put him on report for the Captain's ire,
Hope he heeds the warning!

Chorus

What do you do with a dumb-ass diver,
What do you do with a dumb-ass diver,
What do you do with a dumb-ass diver,
Earl-eye in the morning!

Sabotage his gear so he can't go diving,
Sabotage his gear so he can't go diving,
Sabotage his gear so he can't go diving,
Listen to his mourning!

Call him bad names till he gets the message,
Call him bad names till he gets the message,
Call him bad names till he gets the message,
Feels good to be storming!

Chorus

What do you do with a dumb-ass diver,
What do you do with a dumb-ass diver,
What do you do with a dumb-ass diver,
Earl-eye in the morning!

We've all been there at some point ... stuck on a boat with this guy ... or worse yet, buddied up with him. This ain't Shamus O'Blivion we're talking about here. It's not the new diver who doesn't even suspect he's doing something really dumb. No ... that guy's usually pretty easy to deal with ... he's in a place most of us were at before. His condition's curable ... he's usually open to advice.

Uh, uh ... we're talkin about Herbie Hubris ... the guy who thinks he's way better than he really is, and who's determined to prove it to everybody. This guy's got waterfront property along Denial. He's not just ignorant ... he's damn proud of it. He's convinced he's right and everybody who thinks otherwise owns the problem.

How do you deal with that guy?

And have you ever looked back on a time when you were that guy? Thinking yourself more skilled than you really were? Convinced you had all the answers? What snapped you out of it?

What works for you? Sage advice from someone you respect? Unsolicited advice from a total stranger? A boat captain or crew pointing out something you may not have thought about, or don't agree with? Haranguing from a more experienced diver? Or perhaps just a good, solid, bowel-moving underwater experience that you managed to survive?

I know what works for me ... something I learned from my most influential mentor, Uncle Pug, who would use the gentle admonishment "you really need to rethink your approach to that dive". Most folks want to be good divers, and giving them things to think about while letting them draw their own conclusions often produces the desired result. When it doesn't, I'll usually walk away ... deciding that this person's just going to have to figure it out the hard way.

And sometimes I've been that guy ... realizing it at some later point when I reflect back on something I did and think to myself "Boy, that was dumb ... I'll not do it again". Or if someone chooses constructive criticism, I'm pretty open to that ... particularly if it's coming from someone I admire or respect. But I'm the sort who doesn't take well to negative feedback ... that approach usually just causes me to shut out the message and think poorly of the messenger.

So what works for you ... both receiving and giving advice when you think it's merited?

What do you do with a dumb-ass diver?

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[DivemasterDennis]

Good morning my friend- and thanks for another really good post. I like the emphasis on constructive and gentle criticism and correction, which is a little different from the song lyric. My wife and I vented about this in our book, but your focus on HOW to correct a problem rather than just complain, joke, gossip, or write about it makes this a fresh thread. Let me contribute to it as follows:
In a recreational dive setting (not a training session) if I have had an encounter with a dive who had safety related issue (going too deep, ascending to quickly, straying from their buddy) I always start with a question on how they enjoyed the dive. Then I ask if they are ok, and mention why I am asking. If I am the official dive leader (working) I then tell them that they either need to (a) pay attention to depth, ascent rate, safety stop, buddy proximity etc. for their own safety, or (b) tell them they need to stay with me on the next dive. If I am just another guy on the boat, not leading their group, I mention something only if I perceive no one else did, and follow the same progression (without telling them to stay with me.) As to environmental issues: standing on the reef, harassing the wildlife, I will start with the "how did you like the dive", then ask them to be aware of their conduct and not repeat it. I will try to offer positive suggestions if it is a buoyancy issue, and even suggest why not chasing after or handling things is a good idea. I also do these things as quietly and privately as possible so that the diver does not feel singled out or embarrassed. My wife, who is a really nice person, is also good at positive correction and conversation, and I will often defer to her.
And then there is your Herbie Hubris. I have had to deal with that guy both when I was the divemaster, and when I am just another diver on the boat with my wife and dive buddy Debbie. I try to be polite but firm if they are disturbing others on the boat or in the water. If there is a safety issue, if I am in charge I solicit the captain's back up and we confront to correct. If I am just a guy on the boat, I will enlist the aide of the captain or dive leader if it is a safety issue. Sometimes all you can do is ignore them. Sometimes I have intervened to retrieve them from going too deep, and even slowed an ascent. Then they yell at me back on the boat. I respond by saying I promise never to save them again. That I do however publicly of privately their rant may have been.
A positive approach always works best: never confront or condescend. Firm, polite, respectful correction. If they are unresponsive, then from now on I guess I'll sing them your song! Or walk away.
DivemasterDennis

 

[Tom K]

The only experience I've had with this type of diver he was actually our Dive Master. He was the greatest thing to ever get wet, just ask him. Well he was unable to find the boat at the end of the dive and lead us in the wrong direction. We of course tried to politely correct him but to no avail. A long, quiet surface swim followed.

 

[The Chairman]

Too funny, Bob. Our approach is strangely similar.

 

[sotgecho]

Deploy the long hose.

 

[cloudflint]

Ive been quite lucky in that 99% of the people i dive with are fellow members of the local dive club. This means we dive together, we go to the pub together, we train together and I can split all the members in the club between "people who helped teach me" and "people who i have helped teach". Ive had people who have thought they where much better than they actually where, a few who where even a danger to themselves and others. When an instructor of 50 years says that a guy screwed up so bad he had recurring nightmares about it, you know someone needs to do some practice

If someones really messed up i generally try to bring it up as a problem that happened to the "team" rather than a specific individual so saying "Bouyancy control on that dive was a bit of a pain eh?" rather than "your bouyancy control sucked on that dive eh?". Ive found if im willing to sit there after a dive and be frank about things i could have done better during the dive they usually will admit their faults with a little prodding "how do you think you did with this aspect of the dive? how about this aspect e.t.c?"

I have encountered people though who just dont get it or dont want to get it. At that point i consider myself lucky i can go to the diving comittiee and say "This person is being a bit of a problem" and we can arrange for the troublesome diver to dive with someone more experienced who can help them improve. And if all else fails and they refuse to listen even if we say "everyone who has dived with you has reported the same problem are you going to do something about it or not?" it wouldn't be the first time someone has been kicked out for refusing to listen. Its sad when it happens, but we often find that if they are going to be like that they wont enjoy our company anyway.

For people outside the club ive always found it a bit more difficult. My very first dive without an instructor was with a fellow diver who had just completed his PADI open water along with me. We had arranged to do 3 dives but the first one was a bit of a nightmare, we got totally lost and we both spent most of the dive flapping around like crazy. After coming out the water I wasn't sure how to broach the subject so i just said i was a bit tired for the day and left it at that.

I dont think ive ever been that guy who refuses to see that he isnt very good. Either that or i still AM that guy and just haven't realized it yet. Again i feel ive been lucky being in a club we haven't changed our training scheme much in 50 years and if a trainee isnt doing something very well it will usually come out and be discussed by everyone later at the pub We havent ever had anyone be offended at this so far i think since we are all equally harsh with each other, we might slag off a trainee for doing a drill badly, but then we will turn and slag off a guy who has been diving for 30 years for kicking up the silt on his last dive.

I think the key thing is to try to encourage an environment where everyone is comfortable giving suggestions and admitting their faults rather than being macho

 

[raoulsttexas]

great post Bob!

I've (hopefully) never been/ tried to be the guy who came across as knowing everything, and I typically ask my fellow divers to correct me as they see fit. I'm very open to suggestions and I think that stems from the fact that I'm a musician (specifically guitarist). There have been PLENTY of times where I've had to take the stage knowing that there were players either in the audience or backstage who were god's to me. I always made it a point to strike up a conversation with them if possible prior to my set. After the set, I'd try to swing back by and (very casually) ask for legit feedback on my playing. I was NOT looking for compliments, nor being a star-f'r. I legitimately wanted to hear what they thought my playing had too much or too little of etc.

My approach has been the same with diving. I usually wait until after the first couple of dives because I don't want the guy to think I'm a COMPLETE idiot prior to jumping in. But after the first day or so, after they've seen I won't put my tank on upside down or jump in with only 1 fin, I'll ask them to give me some feedback on anything they might see glaring.

On 1 occasion in Grand Cayman, I had the same DM for a few days and we'd chatted a bit about various things. I don't think I ever said, hey, please critique me, but after diving the kittiwake we started chatting. He VERY gently said, "you know, you sawtoothed the hell out of that dive. You'll probably live longer if you don't do that too often". I thought back and realized I had descended to the bottom ~60'(?) and slowly made our way up to the main deck, then down 1 floor, then up to the wheel house (~10). At this point, my wife/buddy pointed at the prop and began descending again. we ended up right back at 60' and then slowly made our way back to SS and surface.

While I knew descending again to the prop wasn't a good idea, I had to follow/catch up to my wife (we later chatted about this as well), and at least I was there to make an extra slow ascent to SS.

Looking back, that advice he gave really stuck with me. It made me aware of 1 more thing that need to pay attention to ALWAYS.

While it may not have "snapped me out of" anything, it did give me 1 additional "skill" to keep in my arsenol of safe diving practices.

 

[boulderjohn]

After some introspection, I can honestly say that what I do is not enough. I really haven't experienced many such as you describe. The ones that bother me most are the ones I see destroying the reefs through their diving practices, and although I try to do something, it usually isn't enough. I am not talking about people with lack of skill--I am talking about people consciously doing something wrong, like kneeling on the coral to clear a mask. I generally say something to them afterward, but I guess I lack the guts to do as much as I should.

The worse I saw in this regard was the father and two sons who prepared to dive in the warm waters of Belize wearing bathing suits, T-shirts, and 5mm gloves. I was mystified until I saw them using the gloves to to grab the coral and pull themselves along wherever they wanted to go. I said something to them later, and I also spoke very clearly to the DM about it. He said he would do something before the next dive. He didn't. I then let the operator owner know I wasn't going to use them again.

As far as the type of diver you describe, my most interesting experience came diving in Cozumel. The operator put the most experienced divers on the same boat for a number of days in a row, so a bunch of us were together almost every day. I buddied with a pretty arrogant (but genuinely skilled) diver. As a buddy, he was worthless to me. He kept going off on his own as much as possible, without warning. For those who know Cozumel, that is not how diving is done there. Because of the way the drift diving works there, you are supposed to dive as a group with the DM.

Before one dive, the DM asked where we wanted to go, and the consensus was a site known for its ripping currents, its abundant sea life on one ridge in particular, and a great tunnel maze that is fun to swim through. The DM was leading us diagonally across the ridge, fighting the current at that point, when my buddy decided to check out a minor coral formation down the slope of the ridge instead. Everyone else was following the DM, and I tried to stay in sight of both the group and my straying buddy. The DM looked back at me, and I pointed to my buddy. The DM watched for a while and then led the group to my buddy, because where he had gone made it impossible for him to fight the current and join us.

Back on the boat, he made some kind of comment about the site not being as good as we had all made it out to be."That's because," I told him, "you led us off the main part of the reef. We were just about to enter the tunnel maze and the best part of the reef when you took off. We had to follow you instead." He started to joke a little, but there was a boat load of eyes staring at him, and no one was smiling.

The next day he was just fine.

 

[knowone]

Hurry up and finish shaving

 

[Tom K]

[tongue in cheek] I would like a second to talk to Mr Grateful Bob about whether he would like to rethink his accreditation of Shel Silverstein and maybe consider Irish Sea Shanties for credit next time. It might improve the buoyancy of his satire. [/tongue in cheek]