What do you think about light weight self propelled devices?

[Nemrod]

It is a pool toy.

N

 

[Z Gear]

While I do here the concerns of mainly being under powered. This would have to be something that I would have to consider when evaluating the pros and cons over all. I find the small light weight practical aspect is very appealing, but it would have to have at least enough power to propel me forward with my gear significantly. I would not expect it to have me zooming around like a regular scooter with all my gear, if that is what some are comparing it to. Those devices should do that that is why they are so big and heavy. Nevertheless it is amazing that I have met an innovator willing to dedicate his time to
creating such a device.

I have to disagree with the premise that it is only a pool toy. We have powerful heavy scooters right now, I would not be one to lug one of those around. This product seems really practical, and if it works well I am definitely going to share my findings.
I appreciate your comments but this innovator could use all the help he can get. Price point to make this item depends on it. I think there is a market for divers who would love something this size and weight. Even if it less powerful than the other scooters that's alright by me.

I would have to say at least it got me to think about getting one, while before I just wasn't interested.
Frank G
www.zgearinc.com

 

[BRT]

I for one would be interested in hearing your impressions.

To me the utility of a scooter really hangs off of three things:

- depth rating
- burn time
- thrust

On his campaign page I didn't find any information about any of that.

It says the components and connectors are rated to 100ft (4ATA), which is woefully inadequate for scuba diving, even if you do take the leap of faith that since all components are rated that the thing when assembled will have this same rating. If you compare it to a dive watch, which is rated to 20ATA, that's the bar you should be looking for with a scooter as well. Well built scooters are normally rated to a lot more than 20ATA.

The page does not mention run time at all, which isn't surprising given the format of the thing. A scooter is just a motor and a battery and there is a reason for the size of them, namely that you can't run it on a small battery and get anywhere. Even the run times of an hour that many scooters get from something like a 3AH battery (the battery in your car, for example, is probably round about 1ah), is short. From the size of this thing it's either not going to run for long or the guy is going to get richer on the battery he invented than on the scooter he invented.

As for thrust, I see no believable claims on the site. He says something about a surfboard and 11mph, which seems too good to be true, but a surfboard on presumably a calm surface is not a good analogue for a scuba diver wearing, say 50kg of gear, which may be close to neutrally buoyant but still needs to be dragged through a lot of water.

So suspending belief, I think it might be an interesting toy for snorkeling if you don't go too far but for diving I have my doubts.

Either way, if you do critique it, I'd like to hear about the points I mentioned above.

R..

The battery in your car is about 100-150 AH

Edit: I was wrong in my quick response. A car battery is around 50 AH

 

[arcticat99]

kinda cool, i have a dolphin propulsion that i bought off ebay 8 years ago for around 100 dollars it said its good to 60 ft .never used for scuba but i snorkeled for hours with it probably 6 hours between charge at a speed of 2 mph so this one might have a decent battery life .batteries are alot stronger now

 

[Diver0001]

The battery in your car is about 100-150 AH

Edit: I was wrong in my quick response. A car battery is around 50 AH

I stand corrected. Google confirms that my numbers were not good across the board.

R..

 

[stuartv]

Maybe the Kickstarter page updated last night?

I'm looking at it and it says the Swim Jet output is 25 lbs thrust and swim speed is 2.2 mph for an average adult. It says 45 minutes operation at full throttle and 90 for typical use.

The only thing I couldn't find is the depth rating of the Swim Jet - other than the statement about components and connectors being rated to 100' (which is pitiful - even a basic GoPro is rated for 130'). But, maybe that is their (poorly written) way of saying the Swim Jet is rated for 100'.

 

[Diver0001]

Yeah, I looked at this again since I have a few minutes.

From a DIY perspective I think I see what they have done. It looks to me like they have taken a 300w/24v electric motor similar to the ones you see in an eBike and they put it in a housing like the old style electric outboard motors. They then try to run it with a 20a LiOn battery similar to a wrap of 24x 3.6v / 3400mAh cells.

Without getting out the slide-rule, my gut says that all of that might actually fit in the housing that I see on the kickstarter site and might make stats like the ones they are claiming (in lab conditions of course) plausible, although I still have my doubts about the run times.

From the manufacturer's perspective the motor costs next to nothing. The battery is the big ticket item but you should probably be able to source the materials you need to make one of these for round about $200. I bet they'll offer it at a price of +/- $500-600 retail .

The hardest thing, of course, is going to be getting it water proof enough to be of much use to divers. If they solve that problem then they could theoretically put it on steroids with a bigger battery and bigger motor (for example by twinning up two of these things in a housing that you hold with two hands) and make it useful for some types of divers/diving.

In summary, I'm not ready to write this off. I'd still like to hear what Frank has to say when he gets one to test drive.

R..

 

[stuartv]

Yeah, I looked at this again since I have a few minutes.

From a DIY perspective I think I see what they have done. It looks to me like they have taken a 300w/24v electric motor similar to the ones you see in an eBike and they put it in a housing like the old style electric outboard motors. They then try to run it with a 20a LiOn battery similar to a wrap of 24x 3.6v / 3400mAh cells.

Without getting out the slide-rule, my gut says that all of that might actually fit in the housing that I see on the kickstarter site and might make stats like the ones they are claiming (in lab conditions of course) plausible, although I still have my doubts about the run times.

From the manufacturer's perspective the motor costs next to nothing. The battery is the big ticket item but you should probably be able to source the materials you need to make one of these for round about $200. I bet they'll offer it at a price of +/- $500-600 retail .

The hardest thing, of course, is going to be getting it water proof enough to be of much use to divers. If they solve that problem then they could theoretically put it on steroids with a bigger battery and bigger motor (for example by twinning up two of these things in a housing that you hold with two hands) and make it useful for some types of divers/diving.

In summary, I'm not ready to write this off. I'd still like to hear what Frank has to say when he gets one to test drive.

R..

The website says right on it that MSRP will be $750.

And, with their bigger battery pack, the motor gives 30# thrust and 60 minutes on High.

How much thrust do the "real" scuba DPVs give?

 

[kelemvor]

Sounds a "me too" to the seascooter gti. Price, depth, speed are all about the same. Seadoo has a slightly longer run-time. They also have a variety of products, from a much cheaper (and less capable) model to slightly more expensive (and more capable) units. Seadoo appears to use a larger propeller, which may account for some of the performance discrepancy between similarly priced seadoo and bixpy products.

I see this thing competing more directly with seadoo scooters than with traditional dive scooters that you are thinking of, @Z Gear The big dive scooters have more power WAY more runtime, far deeper depth rating (and the corresponding weight and pricetags to account for this).

I don't see a weight rating on the bixby, but I'd be surprised if it was significantly lighter than the seadoo (if you include the necessary bixby battery).

 

[kelemvor]

The website says right on it that MSRP will be $750.

And, with their bigger battery pack, the motor gives 30# thrust and 60 minutes on High.

How much thrust do the "real" scuba DPVs give?

Whoops, I stand corrected. At $750 it's priced closer to the $650 SEA-DOO SEASCOOTER VS SUPERCHARGED PLUS
http://seascootercenter.mwrc.net/en/product.php?product_id=47150
The GTI that's closer spec wise is $450.


I think bixby is going to have to beef up or drop prices significantly to compete with seadoo.