DaleC
Contributor
Sorry T, you are late to the party and all the dip is gone. It's dry crackers for you.
"What if ..?"
- Thread starter Trace Malinowski
- Start date
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ScubaSteve
Wow.....what a DB
These dry crackers are making me thirsty...
InTheDrink
Contributor
Damn, late to this party big style. This keeps happening. Can someone please call me next time? Jeez.
If it ever came down to a binary choice it would be easy for me, I'd see how I fared with the buddy. I'm not all that bothered about death anyhow and thought I'd have checked out well before now - every day's a bonus huh?
And Sas, even as an atheist, like I am (or more specifically, agnostic) there are things I believe more important than my own life, like ideas for example. In a very important way recognising that is the final elevation but I know you don't need a 101 on this. Laughing at death removes it's power (well, only in philosophical way
). Laughing at life or death and the sheer absurdity of it all makes perfect sense to me.
Irrespective of this though, if I was in a tight spot underwater, I can't think of anyone I'd feel safer with than you.
(And yes, I do need to get out more)
J
If it ever came down to a binary choice it would be easy for me, I'd see how I fared with the buddy. I'm not all that bothered about death anyhow and thought I'd have checked out well before now - every day's a bonus huh?
And Sas, even as an atheist, like I am (or more specifically, agnostic) there are things I believe more important than my own life, like ideas for example. In a very important way recognising that is the final elevation but I know you don't need a 101 on this. Laughing at death removes it's power (well, only in philosophical way
). Laughing at life or death and the sheer absurdity of it all makes perfect sense to me. Irrespective of this though, if I was in a tight spot underwater, I can't think of anyone I'd feel safer with than you.
(And yes, I do need to get out more
)J
DOkie
Guest
Funny... Haven't found myself on this site in forever and the first thread I look at is 37 pages long (and as usual, I'm late again, but putting my two cents in anyway)...
I can, without any doubt, say that I would stay. Any buddy, any time. That being said, I don't believe the question (or any situation) is black and white. I believe it's how we perceive the question. The thread title is "What if" and while I have pondered this quite a bit over the past 37 pages, I keep coming back to that question. What if? I don't cave dive, but I am a very accomplished wreck diver (so please base my opinion on this train of thought). Although I understand that the simple act of hope can be a dangerous direction to go in, it's something that is simply a part of me. My 16 year old son was still-born with many congenital heart defects. At that time, we were told that he would not live and if he did he would be a vegetable. We were told this again at 1 year, 3 years, 5, etc. etc. etc. I didn't accept that and I didn't give up hope. Today I gave him another lesson driving my standard shift (it's paid off - grin). 13 years ago, I was told by a doctor to make up my will and get things in order. I have been in and out of remission 3 times, and two months ago, they discovered masses in my lungs. I've never given up hope. Maybe it's these circumstances that would make it easy to risk (or give) my life for another. I have had the opportunity to look back and know that I have lived a very good 38 years. Am I ready to go? Nope, but I don't think anyone ever really is. We all have things we wish we would have done differently, regardless of our religious or non-religious views. I've just had an opportunity, to really LIVE life accepting and knowing what the outcome is going to be but not giving up hope. I guess you could say that I'm at peace with it... (no pun intended)
That being said, I don't believe that those who would leave are necessarily bad dive buddies and I don't think that they would necessarily leave in any situation. I think they are taking the question quite literally and the answer they are giving is simply that it's better for one to die that two. According to all forms of training, that's the logical decision. They make that decision knowing it's something they have to live with. I just know that, for me, it's not something that I could do (not right nor wrong)....
As for the other topics... Would I protect a child from a bear? Yep. Would I run into a burning building? If I thought I could save someone - Yep And for those who are trying to convert SAS into motherhood... Come on... Be honest... There were times when we envied those who who were stading in the 60" line at the amusement parks while we were standing in the 36" lines.... (and my then 9 year old son sneezed and blew a booger on the woman's foot in front of me... She was wearing sandals - I was dryheaving...) (grin)
Ok -- Flame on and I'll go away for another six months...
I can, without any doubt, say that I would stay. Any buddy, any time. That being said, I don't believe the question (or any situation) is black and white. I believe it's how we perceive the question. The thread title is "What if" and while I have pondered this quite a bit over the past 37 pages, I keep coming back to that question. What if? I don't cave dive, but I am a very accomplished wreck diver (so please base my opinion on this train of thought). Although I understand that the simple act of hope can be a dangerous direction to go in, it's something that is simply a part of me. My 16 year old son was still-born with many congenital heart defects. At that time, we were told that he would not live and if he did he would be a vegetable. We were told this again at 1 year, 3 years, 5, etc. etc. etc. I didn't accept that and I didn't give up hope. Today I gave him another lesson driving my standard shift (it's paid off - grin). 13 years ago, I was told by a doctor to make up my will and get things in order. I have been in and out of remission 3 times, and two months ago, they discovered masses in my lungs. I've never given up hope. Maybe it's these circumstances that would make it easy to risk (or give) my life for another. I have had the opportunity to look back and know that I have lived a very good 38 years. Am I ready to go? Nope, but I don't think anyone ever really is. We all have things we wish we would have done differently, regardless of our religious or non-religious views. I've just had an opportunity, to really LIVE life accepting and knowing what the outcome is going to be but not giving up hope. I guess you could say that I'm at peace with it... (no pun intended)
That being said, I don't believe that those who would leave are necessarily bad dive buddies and I don't think that they would necessarily leave in any situation. I think they are taking the question quite literally and the answer they are giving is simply that it's better for one to die that two. According to all forms of training, that's the logical decision. They make that decision knowing it's something they have to live with. I just know that, for me, it's not something that I could do (not right nor wrong)....
As for the other topics... Would I protect a child from a bear? Yep. Would I run into a burning building? If I thought I could save someone - Yep And for those who are trying to convert SAS into motherhood... Come on... Be honest... There were times when we envied those who who were stading in the 60" line at the amusement parks while we were standing in the 36" lines.... (and my then 9 year old son sneezed and blew a booger on the woman's foot in front of me... She was wearing sandals - I was dryheaving...) (grin)
Ok -- Flame on and I'll go away for another six months...
Simple You Still Try to Exit
diver_doug
Contributor
I think it's pretty obvious what the morally-proper course of action would be in a situation such as this. Point at something behind your buddy with an excited look on your face, then when he turns around you make a b-line for your safety stop. 
But seriously...
BEING in that situation is much different from theorizing about it in front of a computer. You probably wouldn’t truly know what you would do in such a situation until actually confronted with it. Also, there’s all sorts of variables that could come into play. If you’re at, say, 130ft and your buddy has 50psi and you have 100psi that’s completely different than if he has 100psi and you have 500 psi. Neither situation is good, but in the latter situation you may very well have enough air that you could both survive. Also, when we say “buddy” are we talking close friend/father/son/wife buddy? Or insta-buddy, friend of a friend buddy, etc.? There’s all sorts of factors that would likely play into your ultimate decision and the truth is no 2 emergency situations are going to be created equal, so what you would ACTUALLY do in such a situation is going to be contingent on a number of factors, thus there is no single answer.
But seriously...
BEING in that situation is much different from theorizing about it in front of a computer. You probably wouldn’t truly know what you would do in such a situation until actually confronted with it. Also, there’s all sorts of variables that could come into play. If you’re at, say, 130ft and your buddy has 50psi and you have 100psi that’s completely different than if he has 100psi and you have 500 psi. Neither situation is good, but in the latter situation you may very well have enough air that you could both survive. Also, when we say “buddy” are we talking close friend/father/son/wife buddy? Or insta-buddy, friend of a friend buddy, etc.? There’s all sorts of factors that would likely play into your ultimate decision and the truth is no 2 emergency situations are going to be created equal, so what you would ACTUALLY do in such a situation is going to be contingent on a number of factors, thus there is no single answer.
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My favorite quote from the story:
"there was a struggle and the survivor did everything he could''
Anywhere else but in a cave would that be consdered homicide?
I'd like to know how much gas the survivor had when he reached the cave entrance, and where the victim's body was found. Only then can we know for sure.
Sas
Contributor
No. Whilst I won't comment on the specifics of the case in that newspaper article I think your statement is incorrect in general. There are other charges such as voluntary manslaughter, involuntary manslaughter or sometimes no charges at all if the survivor did it in self defence. Depends on the circumstances of each case.
Why is that?
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