What is the problem with doing a Scuba Review/Refresher?

[chrisch]

.... (Last one of these I experienced, to top it off, the DM was bothered that I cleared my mask while hovering instead on kneeling on the bottom. )

You have to remember that DM is a certification about compliance with standards. A good DM wants/expects you toe the agency line. Kneeling on the bottom lets the DM have control of the situation.

Personally I have an issue with the whole check out dive thing. It is a minefield IMHO. I try to look at it from the point of view of the person doing it. What are you seeking to achieve? Is it a test to see if the diver is safe or competent? If so how do you determine that? Or is is simply to see if a person has skills issues that need to be addressed? If so are you providing a holiday dive service or a training service? What is the customer expecting? Have they booked a dive holiday to find they are now undertaking remedial training? If so how will they feel about that and what are the repercussions for your business - have you contracted out to provide a holiday or a training course? If the person "passes" the check out and then drowns does this make you more or less liable in your duty of care? I honestly don't think dive centres have thought about the issues very much. If as an instructor you certify a student has successfully completed their recognised training course your liability ends there - assuming this is an honest instructor then the student has completed training to the certification level. Everyone understands this. How though do you "assess" a person's ability to undertake a series of dives by checking their mask clearing skills? There is no agency agreed protocol, no syllabus to follow. In short the dive centre has made up it's own "rules". Absolute minefield.

 

[Gaijinsan]

I've seen similar requirements in Egypt. I think if you're requiring it at 6 months it's just a money grab to take advantage of vacation divers. In much of the world it's too cold for wetsuit diving more than half of the year and I'm personally not going to put on a dry suit and go out when it's 5 or 10 degrees outside just to keep my log book from going over 6 months of inactivity. I think it's safe to say that we'll do some vacation diving at least once a year, usually more often, but my girlfriend and I both dislike diving in Japan (in any season) because the conditions are crap and it's quite expensive.

 

[OMANDIVER]

"Diving is fun" is the strapline of the recreational agencies. It should be "Diving is dangerous". in mountaineering you enter the death zone above about 8000 metres and where isn't enough PPO2 to support human life. With diving it's the moment your head is under the water. I don't see why a dive centre shouldn't require a check dive on the first day, with remedial training if required. It seems to be a wholly responsible approach and the least you can do for someone you may have to buddy with.

 

[BDSC]

Firstly, I would make the policy very clear (and cite insurance as the reason) to everyone when they book.

And a lot of folks would probably believe that when, in fact, insurance will have nothing to do with it. (I'm not saying you believe it) The old excuse of "It's because of our insurance" has long been around for just about everything you can think of and is the fallback excuse when a business can't really come up with a good reason why they do or don't do something. They figure most customers will buy it and they usually do.

 

[chrisch]

..... I don't see why a dive centre shouldn't require a check dive on the first day, with remedial training if required. It seems to be a wholly responsible approach and the least you can do for someone you may have to buddy with.

The dive centre is at liberty to require anything it likes. However, the dive centre has now assessed your diving and declared you fit to be a buddy or otherwise. What is the legal position of liability after such an assessment? The buddy now can rely on the dive centre's assessment of the assessed diver as a fit and able buddy. If I were to assess someone and declare them competent to buddy up with someone I would want at the very least to check out their rescue skills and their ability to provide gas to an out-of-gas diver, maybe do a controlled buoyant lift of an unconscious diver. If the diver had no rescue certification (e.g. a PADI AOW) then really they should undertake such a training before I would be happy with them. But that's just me. It doesn't matter what I think as I am neither a dive centre owner nor an insurance company. What is the legal position? What do insurance companies think?

Assuming that none of this matters as the divers will be supervised by a divemaster what is the function of the check out dive? If the dives are unsupervised would it not be better for me to conduct the check out dive on my buddy and vice versa?

---------- Post added August 13th, 2014 at 11:54 AM ----------

And a lot of folks would probably believe that when, in fact, insurance will have nothing to do with it. (I'm not saying you believe it) The old excuse of "It's because of our insurance" has long been around for just about everything you can think of and is the fallback excuse when a business can't really come up with a good reason why they do or don't do something. They figure most customers will buy it and they usually do.

I agree.

I am trying to figure out the real reason - if there is one

 

[ScubaRose]

Yes, 12 months is the PADI recommendation. Six months seems more than a bit excessive to me. I think you need a more realistic policy, and if you don't have a more realistic policy, you can expect continued bad customer relations.

In the Standard Safe Dive Practices Statement of Understanding on the student record file and in the training logbook it states "after a period of inactivity that exceeds six months", but I tend to agree with those that state that 6 months is too strict of a cutoff and perhaps 12 months would be better.

Sorry for your grandson and his mother that they had such a poor experience. If that's the service rendered I wouldn't have paid for that either. Sounds like a quick readthrough of the OWD manual would have done a better job in this case....

 

[chillyinCanada]

Scubarose, what price do you actually charge for the review? What specifically is included? How long does it take and where is it given?

 

[ScubaRose]

I took a friend diving last year on my private boat who had not dived in 20 years. I loaned him all of the equipment and gave him a quick briefing on how the BC worked, and where the weight releases were. I dove with him and he did as well or better than any of us on his first dive in 20 years. Now the rest of the story is: His prior experience was as a US Navy diver for 11 years. Experience DOES make a difference.

Mike

I think no one would argue with that! Hence the very big grey area mentioned in the OP

 

[Rhone Man]

There are good reasons and bad reasons for bristling at being asked to do a review.

The main good reason is where it is frankly a money making exercise by the resort (and often transparently so). We've all seen it.

Tha main bad reason is people's natural sensitivity to the suggestion that their skills might not be up to it and need testing - especially if made in front of family and friends. I'd guess on an average day dive resorts see more bad reasons than good reasons.

I have to say, I do bristle at being asked to do reviews/refreshers. My favourite story on this front is one told by Bob (NWGratefulDiver) about when he went diving in the Caribbean. Bob is an active and experienced dive instructor and cave diver, but they made him do a skills evaluation. He performed it all flawless whilst demonstrating perfect bouyancy control hovering exactly one meter above the sea bottom. And the patronising **** of a DM then told him he would have to repeat all the skills whilst kneeling on the sand.

 

[ScubaRose]

That's not what the OP said was the rule for his shop. I'm trying to get clarification.

I'd say that someone with a full cave certification would definitely fall in the grey area, strongly hinting towards white. Meaning: please just go diving.

It is interesting though that it is usually the people that are inexperienced (in the 10-40 dive bracket, let's say) that have issues with doing a refresher, although statistics indicate that they're the group most at risk. Someone with a full cave certification is (at least I hope so ) much more aware of the risks that diving pose, and his/her own abilities and weaknesses than someone that got certified 8 months ago and hasn't dived since.

---------- Post added August 13th, 2014 at 04:04 PM ----------

Scubarose, what price do you actually charge for the review? What specifically is included? How long does it take and where is it given?

Applying the exchange rate it comes down to around 65USD. It includes theory review (level depending on the diver) including dive planning (RDP/eRDP or their computer if they have one) and the 20 skills in the pool. It's a PADI Scuba Review. The whole thing takes around 2.5 hours give or take, depending on how much remediation the diver needs. Besides the 20 skills I always give people the opportunity to work on specific skills if they want to.