What is the problem with doing a Scuba Review/Refresher?

[Skittl1321]

It is interesting though that it is usually the people that are inexperienced (in the 10-40 dive bracket, let's say) that have issues with doing a refresher, although statistics indicate that they're the group most at risk.

I only have an issue with a refresher at 6 months. At 1 year it makes sense.
However, with just under a year between dive trips, I plan to go hop in the local quarry very soon, just to run through all my skills to make sure I can still clear a mask, recover a reg, etc. (Which means I'll actually have a logged dive and wouldn't be required to do a refresher) I recognize my inexperience. But I also don't think I've forgotten all my skills just because 11 months have past.

The biggest thing I think I'll need 'refreshing' is bouyancy control- and it seems like most refreshers are done in pools, where is is very difficult to work on that since the water is so shallow.

We went about 6 months between our certification class and our first dives. We weren't rusty when we got to vacation, and did pretty well.

 

[fire_diver]

I'd say that someone with a full cave certification would definitely fall in the grey area, strongly hinting towards white. Meaning: please just go diving.

You still didn't explain exactly what constitutes "proof" of recent diving. So is my word enough? What if I wasn't recently cave diving. What if I'm just a BOW diver with thousands of dives over the last few decades, including just prior to walking into the shop you work for. Is my word still good enough?

 

[chrisch]

.....
Tha main bad reason is people's natural sensitivity to the suggestion that their skills might not be up to it and need testing - especially if made in front of family and friends... .

...It is interesting though that it is usually the people that are inexperienced (in the 10-40 dive bracket, let's say) that have issues with doing a refresher, ....

I would say these two points are highly related

Given some of the posters (from the US) mentioned a price for a review of $200 against the OP at $65 on site, I can see that doing the review before going is not going to work for the people from the US. Again, it seems clear that if people clearly understood they were going to need a SR and its "only" $65 vs. $200 back home it would be an easier "sell".

I would agree that "holiday" divers with long periods of inactivity and sub 100 dives in total are people who have the most to gain from a skills brush up. Recent diving doesn't mean much though in fairness. An assessment dive would be a more effective way to see what was needed. As per my post above this also has it's problems and will, I have no doubt, be just as unpopular with those that have skills issues, real or perceived and be just as pointless for those that will run through a mask clearing exercise whilst hovering.

I fear there is no easy answer to this.

---------- Post added August 13th, 2014 at 01:53 PM ----------

You still didn't explain exactly what constitutes "proof" of recent diving. So is my word enough? What if I wasn't recently cave diving. What if I'm just a BOW diver with thousands of dives over the last few decades, including just prior to walking into the shop you work for. Is my word still good enough?

It's impossible to prove diving activity. You could go on a fishing trip and drop your computer over the side to rack up some dive time before the holiday if it bothered you enough. The only solution to who does/does not need a review is to assess the diver.

 

[fire_diver]

It's impossible to prove diving activity. You could go on a fishing trip and drop your computer over the side to rack up some dive time before the holiday if it bothered you enough. The only solution to who does/does not need a review is to assess the diver.

Not according to the OP's dive shop. I want clarification of what constitutes "proof" to satisfy them to not make me pay for an un-needed "refresher"

 

[ScubaRose]

There are good reasons and bad reasons for bristling at being asked to do a review.

The main good reason is where it is frankly a money making exercise by the resort (and often transparently so). We've all seen it.

Tha main bad reason is people's natural sensitivity to the suggestion that their skills might not be up to it and need testing - especially if made in front of family and friends. I'd guess on an average day dive resorts see more bad reasons than good reasons.

I have to say, I do bristle at being asked to do reviews/refreshers. My favourite story on this front is one told by Bob (NWGratefulDiver) about when he went diving in the Caribbean. Bob is an active and experienced dive instructor and cave diver, but they made him do a skills evaluation. He performed it all flawless whilst demonstrating perfect bouyancy control hovering exactly one meter above the sea bottom. And the patronising **** of a DM then told him he would have to repeat all the skills whilst kneeling on the sand.

That story is hilarious and shocking at the same time . Very curious as to what Bob's reaction was: did he actually perform all the skills kneeling down? To be clear: no one here would ask an active (or even unactive) instructor to do a review and certainly not tell them off for not kneeling down.

I agree with your good & bad reasons and can see why some people would interpret it as "put another dollar in" but I also think it's reasonable to ask that the instuctor's time is paid for. And honestly, if operators would care so much about the money, wouldn't they just take anyone regardless whether they have been diving recently or not? Because now occasionally people take their business elsewhere (as is their right of course) which is, obviously, bad for the operator.

To be honest I haven't been diving much as a customer so when it comes to things like this I don't always easily see the customers point of view that clearly, which was my main motivation for opening this thread. It has been very enlightening so far, thanks for replying everyone!

Just a few questions to keep the discussion going and to inform myself better

- What's the ongoing rate for a checkout dive and how do these things usually work? I have never worked in an environment where this was a 'formal' thing and am curious about what they entail.
- What about instabuddies? We get quite a few divers that come here alone and that buddy up with another "lonely" diver (for lack of a better word?). Imagine both yourself and your instabuddy have, let's say, around 15 dives but both haven't been diving in the last 8 months. The dive is unguided. How would you feel about that?
- Now imagine that + you arrive at the site and there seems to be a fairly strong current which doesn't leave a lot of time for messing about on the surface, but all other divers on the boat are very experienced and for them this is another routine dive. You bought a new wetsuit for this trip, but it's the first time you use it and you have no idea how many weights you need. What do you do?
- What if you are experienced (both number of dives and dives in this area) and you are being buddied up with someone with 12 dives, AOW cert and no dives since last october?

Obviously I'm making up random examples: but you catch my drift.

 

[Croomrider]

On a cruise a few months ago, we did a few dives. The first dive OP asked for a show of hands for anybody that hadn't dove in the last "few days". They just wanted us to do a weight check off the back of the boat before the first dive. They may have been looking for other indications of things needing attention at the same time. I didn't have a problem with it, and several of us did need to make some weight adjustments since we were diving with a slightly different gear configuration than normal. No cost, and no wasted dive time.

Mike

 

[ScubaRose]

Not according to the OP's dive shop. I want clarification of what constitutes "proof" to satisfy them to not make me pay for an un-needed "refresher"

Just for clarification: I'm not here to either defend or attack 'my' shop's policy.
My answer is in line with Chrisch's: there's no easy answers. Dive computer's might be borrowed. Logbooks can be falsified, and like yourself most people stop logging after reaching a certain number of dives (or right after they're certified). So to be honest mostly we take people's word for it, because that's about as reliable as previous methods. If they want to lie about it there's not much we can do (becaust they can also falsify ther logs) but at least the honus is on them if the dive turns out to be too challlenging for them, or if they make a fool of themselves on the boat when it turns out they don't know how to set up their gear.

 

[Skittl1321]

Given some of the posters (from the US) mentioned a price for a review of $200 against the OP at $65 on site, I can see that doing the review before going is not going to work for the people from the US. Again, it seems clear that if people clearly understood they were going to need a SR and its "only" $65 vs. $200 back home it would be an easier "sell".

I'm interested to know what the $200 gets you. Our local dive shop charges $75 for a the PADI Scuba Review. A DM (not an instructor) leads you through 18 skills, which they say takes about 2 hours, and then you can stay in the pool for the rest of the 2 hours they have it rented or until you are out of air. It also includes equipment rental (which is $60 for a full set of equipment from them).

For $255 you can audit the open water class: all the classroom and pool sessions.

 

[boulderjohn]

That story is hilarious and shocking at the same time . Very curious as to what Bob's reaction was: did he actually perform all the skills kneeling down? To be clear: no one here would ask an active (or even unactive) instructor to do a review and certainly not tell them off for not kneeling down.

What is missing in the retelling of this story is the real issue with that required review. Bob had some transportation difficulties and did not arrive at the site as early as expected. He had time to get in the water and go diving, but they would not let him because he had not had his review dive yet. They had to schedule the above-mentioned special session for time when there as someone available to evaluate his skills. He was there for a dedicated week of diving, and he missed an entire day of it because of that foolish exercise. That was what really galled him about it, and it would have galled me, too.

 

[Simon J Rogers]

I think it's more than reasonable to have a refresher after not having dived for 1 year, though six months could perhaps be perceived as a money grabbing exercise. However, even after six months, a diver with say 20 or 30 dives would most likely be rusty for your first few. I remember being that diver a couple of years ago.

I would say $200 seems a little steep for a refresher. I worked at a shop where we strongly recommended a refresher (costing around 60 Euros) after a customer hadn't dived for a while (depending on experience level). Most people agreed that it was a good idea and we'd spend an hour or so in the pool refreshing skills and scenarios. It was surprising how many people struggled with the basics (mask and regulator skills), one guy, who had plenty of dives, didn't know you could breath from a free flow reg!

I also remember diving in Australia where I was buddied with girl who was qualified a instructor but hadn't dived for 7 or 8 years. I thought I had won the instabuddy lottery but she felt 'uncomfortable' at about 10 meters, we had to ascend and she didn't dive for the rest of the trip. Showed me that previous experience doesn't necessarily guarantee someone will be confident and safe on a dive.