What's in a name?

[Virus]FSLR2[]

Hey SeaJay and RavenC - Great Flag Idea - I love it!

But....

1. Louisiana
2. Alabama
3. Mississippi
4. Georga
5. South Carolina
6. (Even if you include Florida)

and you have 7 stars...


/me looks for hanging chads on that flag...

(See, some of us Floridians can count!)




(off topic, but related)

And as far as Florida and the Civil War...

Santa Rosa Island, Escambia County - Oct 9, 1861 - Union Victory
After midnight on October 9, Brig. Gen. Richard Anderson crossed from the mainland to Santa Rosa Island with 1,200 men in two small steamers to surprise Union camps and capture Fort Pickens. He landed on the north beach about four miles east of Fort Pickens and divided his command into three columns. After proceeding about three miles, the Confederates surprised the 6th Regiment, New York Volunteers, in its camp and routed the regiment. Gen. Anderson then adopted a defensive stance to entice the Federals to leave the fort and attack. Receiving reinforcements, Col. Harvey Brown sallied against the Confederates, who reembarked and returned to the mainland.

Yankee Outrage at Tampa, June 30-July 1, 1862 - Confederate Victory
On June 30, a Union gunboat came into Tampa Bay, turned her broadside on the town, and opened her ports. The gunboat then dispatched a launch carrying 20 men and a lieutenant under a flag of truce demanding the surrender of Tampa. The Confederates refused, and the gunboat opened fire. The officer then informed the Confederates that shelling would commence at 6:00 pm after allowing time to evacuate non-combatants from the city. Firing continued sporadically into the afternoon of July 1, when the Federal gunboat withdrew. Result was 0 Casualties on this one!

Saint Johns Bluff, Duval County (Jacksonville), Oct 1-3, 1862 - Union Victory
Brig. Gen. John Finegan established a battery on St. John’ s Bluff near Jacksonville to stop the movement of Federal ships up the St. Johns River. Brig. Gen. John M. Brannan embarked with about 1,500 infantry aboard the transports Boston, Ben DeFord, Cosmopolitan, and Neptune at Hilton Head, South Carolina, on September 30. The flotilla arrived at the mouth of the St. John’ s River on October 1, where Cdr. Charles Steedman’ s gunboats—Paul Jones, Cimarron, Uncas, Patroon, Hale, and Water Witch—joined them. By midday, the gunboats approached the bluff, while Brannan began landing troops at Mayport Mills. Another infantry force landed at Mount Pleasant Creek, about five miles in the rear of the Confederate battery, and began marching overland on the 2nd. Outmaneuvered, Lt. Col. Charles F. Hopkins abandoned the position after dark. When the gunboats approached the bluff the next day, its guns were silent.

Fort Brooke, Tampa - Oct 16-18, 1863 - Union victory
Two Union ships bombarded Fort Brooke on October 16 as a diversion, while a landing party under Acting Master T.R. Harris disembarked at Ballast Point and marched 14 miles to the Hillsborough River to capture several steamers. Harris and his men surprised and captured the blockade running steamer Scottish Chief and sloop Kate Dale. The Rebels destroyed the steamer A.B. Noyes to preclude her capture. On its way back to the ship, Harris’s force was surprised by a detachment of the garrison, causing casualties.

Olustee, Baker County - Feb 20, 1964 - Confederate victory
In February 1864, the commander of the Department of the South, Maj. Gen. Quincy A. Gillmore, launched an expedition into Florida to secure Union enclaves, sever Rebel supply routes, and recruit black soldiers. Brig. Gen. Truman Seymour moved deep into the state, occupying, destroying, and liberating, meeting little resistance on February 20, he approached Brig. Gen. Joseph Finegan’s 5,000 Confederates entrenched near Olustee. One infantry brigade pushed out to meet Seymour’s advance units. The Union forces attacked but were repulsed. The battle raged, and as Finegan committed the last of his reserves, the Union line broke and began to retreat. Finegan did not exploit the retreat, allowing most of the fleeing Union forces to reach Jacksonville.

Natural Bridge, Leon County - March 6, 1865 - Confederate victory
Maj. Gen. John Newton had undertaken a joint force expedition to engage and destroy Confederate troops that had attacked at Cedar Keys and Fort Myers and were allegedly encamped somewhere around St. Marks. The Navy had trouble getting its ships up the St. Marks River. The Army force, however, had advanced and, after finding one bridge destroyed, started before dawn on March 6 to attempt to cross the river at Natural Bridge. The troops initially pushed Rebel forces back but not away from the bridge. Confederate forces, protected by breastworks, guarded all of the approaches and the bridge itself. The action at Natural Bridge lasted most of the day, but, unable to take the bridge, the Union troops retreated to the protection of the fleet.



Look forward to diving with you twoagain. See you soon.

-=V=-


Those that do not learn from our history, are damned to repeat it, probably with the same teacher, who remembers you from the previous year, and hated you then, so there's no chance of you getting out of her class with a decent grade...

 

[SeaJay]

For those of you who don't know, RavenC and I are both finishing degrees at the University of South Carolina; there is a campus here in Beaufort.

My class tonight has the title of "Business Ethics" and of course, centers around a Business degree and the ethical implications in today's business organizations.

Racism, as well as any other descrimination, is a hot topic in the ethics today. Sure, there's legalities which draw the hard, fast line on what can or can't be done in today's workforce, but the issue doesn't stop there - racism is really an ethical issue.

Our last class spent a good portion debating - with education and citation, mind you - about the concept of reparations to African Americans for slavery. With a diverse mix of ethnicities in the classroom, the topic was quite heated. Interestingly, since this is an upper class classroom environment, most of us know each other, and so while the debate was heated, we were all friends before and after the debate. It was an excellent opportunity for all of us to air our innermost feelings without anyone getting offended. And believe me, feelings and opinions were aired.

Tonight I brought to them this thread: We debated the ethical issue of using the flag, and I think that after tonight I can honestly say that I understand how the Confederate flag symbolizes a negative situation - whether that is really what the flag stands for or not. And I can certainly understand that whether it's a misinterpretation or not, the colors simply mean certain things to certain people.

Of course, I can't honestly say that I should feel responsible for whatever feelings they have about the symbolism, and I'm not going to start being responsible for others' feelings, either. But I can understand them.

Here's the bottom line: My opinion hasn't changed. I think the flag is an excellent representation of our group, and I'd be proud to fly it and have it represent the Deep South Divers.

But on the other hand, I can see where there is a possibility of running into future problems with those people who have associated those colors with negative things.

We might want to consider the negative impact that it might have.

That said, I have considered it, and I still feel that the flag that's been drawn is my favorite. However, I can see the possiblity that we may have to deal with someone else's issues if we use it. I personally am okay with that - but some here might not feel that way.

Someone in the class pointed out, interestingly, that ANY reference to "Deep South" or "Confederate" or "Rebel" has the same negative connotation, and that it's not *just* the flag that causes the issue in people that feel that way.

Thus, a decision really has to be made... Do we represent "The South" and it's heritage, negative connotations and all, or do we cater to the occassional individual that *might* conjure up some negative emotions about it?

 

[mgri]

SeaJay once bubbled...
Thus, a decision really has to be made... Do we represent "The South" and it's heritage, negative connotations and all, or do we cater to the occassional individual that *might* conjure up some negative emotions about it?

Great post Seajay. A lot of people around here seem to give you a bum wrap but you strike me as someone with their mind open and their egos in check. You and Raven have been some of my favorite posters on here for that.

Your last statement really does sum it up pretty nicely. When we take political correctness to the extreme we do tend to try to satisfy everyone which ultimately leads to no one group being happy.

Anyway, like I said enough of the BS lets go diving. How long before costal diving is to cold for a wetsuit?

 

[scottish2]

I almost fret saying anything but have to ask.

Is the confederacy the only thing the South is known for?

As I said in my original post I personally am not offended but as some have pointed out with Columbia there is something to this that should be addressed as SeaJay did seem to mention.

And mgri you asked

How long before costal diving is to cold for a wetsuit?

I dove a few years ago in December in a 3 mil shortie with 5 mil farmerjohn over it and I personally was comfortable temp was in the 60's but was fine at least for me. Just used gloves also and I think I may have used a hood but can't remember as personally I hate hoods hate things closing over my ears like a hood does. Like hats but hoods are just to tight on my ears.

 

[scottish2]

Now just a thought. What about having say a central image like I did and surround it with images that folks would associate with each state represented such as a palmetto for SC and a peach for Ga sunshine for florida (assuming it will be represented seeings how they also have their own group) and so on for each state?

 

[mgri]

Well hell, does anyone know of any charters we could get a group on somewhere on the coast?

As far as my dive background goes I'm only OW with only a handful of ocean dives. I've pretty much adopted the whole DIR thing sans solo diving and have your typical DIR/Hog rig.


Scottish, have you ever tried a Henderson hyperstretch hood? I have one and you hardly remember its there. It's so comfortable I sometimes forget I'm wearing and I don't pull the hood around my mask skirt causing an instance mask flood.

Also, I like you idea about the logo for the group but with as much time and effort Raven but into the NDI I guess it's only fair she has veto power

Alright coastal divers, find us a charter. (Please, I'm jonesing for an ocean dive)

Mark

 

[Raven C]

Well, it's whatever you all think but honestly, I would rather the south be thought of as rich in patriotic history and culture instead of the uneducated redneck bubba hick senario that was elaborated on earlier. Southern tradition doesn't mean stupidity.

As for diving in a wetsuit, it really does depend on what you can stand and how thick of a suit. I believe that last January, we dove the Eagle's Nest and the water temp was around 50 degrees in a 3 mil and I called the second dive because it was too cold for me. Kinda depends. I guess with more mil and warm water on the charter to fill my suit would have made a lot of difference.

Even when it is colder weather, inland waters aren't too bad. Another irony is that sometimes the inland waters are warmer than the open waters.

I have no insulation so low temps get to me.

A good hot tub afterwards makes for a good dive experience too. LOL R

 

[Raven C]

Humm I double posted... That was strange.

 

[SeaJay]

"Our" website (I haven't changed all the references to "Lowcountry Scuba" yet, so please be patient) says that the offshore waters are still about 76*. (Go to http://www.LCscuba.com and click on "Dive" and then "Before You Dive" and you'll see a link to Offshore SC). Yeah, I would say that we shouldn't have much problem diving pretty much any time of the year, although Jan and Feb are a bit chilly, and I've seen in the 50's.

I have two really great charters... One that's here in Beaufort, and a typical 2-tank dive is $70 per diver, with tons and tons of great stuff to see. Check the site.

There's another charter that's really great, too... He's south of Savannah, GA, and he pretty much goes out every weekend. His boat is actually a yacht, and the trip is much longer and more luxurious. He also serves breakfast and lunch onboard... That's one kickass ride, and I think he was charging $100 for a two-tank dive, last I looked.

I think that RavenC and I might be meeting the Florida Conch divers late this month... Anyone up for going?

 

[seaangel]

SeaJay,
My local dive shop and the dive club here are having an underwater pumpkin carving contest and cook out on Oct. 26 so I won't be able to make the FL dives wish I could.

On November 6th we are leaving for a liveaboard 4 day trip to West End Bahamas. I love those trips. I try to go 2-3 times a year.
I also like to go down to WPB a few times ayear. I like to go to Ginnie Springs and I have connections in Panama City Beach and Destin FL for dives. I have zero experience diving off the SC and GA coast. I went to the Wreckmania II this past summer and hope to go next summer in July with them.

Due to my work I have trouble getting out to dive as often as I would like and it seems that most dive trips or get togethers on weekends are always on the same weekend I am on call. That is a real bummer to me. I have to plan way ahead so I can request off if there is a trip planned that I want to go on. Keep me posted though.