When a Student doesn't get it?

[RainPilot]

Some hard-learned advice, I know you know a lot of this but for others reading:

In training, there are a lot of factors that have nothing to do with the ability of the instructor or student.
There are several different learning styles found in students. There are several teaching styles found in instructors.

Some students will NOT learn effectively from you regardless of how good an instructor you are. This is NOT a reflection on your / their ability.

With experience, you will learn to adapt your teaching style to the student more effectively so your "can't teach" numbers will improve but you will NEVER get to 100%.

The secret is to figure it out early on and find a way to get them to someone that will be a better match before they reach terminal frustration.

I have the above conversation with all my students before I start training with them. it is important that they don't feel that they have to hang in there when they are having a sub-optimal training event, they have to feel free to ask for a different instructor.

You also have to feel free to hand them off when you realize the match isn't there.

 

[Edward3c]

Some hard-learned advice, I know you know a lot of this but for others reading:

In training, there are a lot of factors that have nothing to do with the ability of the instructor or student.
There are several different learning styles found in students. There are several teaching styles found in instructors.

Some students will NOT learn effectively from you regardless of how good an instructor you are. This is NOT a reflection on your / their ability.

With experience, you will learn to adapt your teaching style to the student more effectively so your "can't teach" numbers will improve but you will NEVER get to 100%.

The secret is to figure it out early on and find a way to get them to someone that will be a better match before they reach terminal frustration.

I have the above conversation with all my students before I start training with them. it is important that they don't feel that they have to hang in there when they are having a sub-optimal training event, they have to feel free to ask for a different instructor.

You also have to feel free to hand them off when you realize the match isn't there.

It's unfortunate that a number of instructors don't learn this lesson, particularly the 'one man band' tribe.

 

[boulderjohn]

Some students will NOT learn effectively from you regardless of how good an instructor you are. This is NOT a reflection on your / their ability.

Although this is true, I also believe it is dangerous to make that notion a guide for your life. If you believe the students your teaching are beyond your ability, it gives you permission to stop trying to help them. It also gives you permission to assume that there is no reason to try to improve your instructional technique.

I was once part of a research team that investigated an experimental student testing program done at three grade level in a section of a large school district. the students were scored on a 4-point scale, essentially ranging from great to terrible. At all 3 grade levels, the overall student average had 57% of them scoring at level 3 (proficient). All the teachers knew that total average, and all the teachers knew how their students had scored. They did not know how any other teachers had scored.

Our team surveyed the entire group anonymously, asking a lot of questions to get a sense of what accounted for student success. The first question we asked was how their students had done on the test. From that answer, we knew a lot about them, because we knew something they didn't--no teacher had students perform anywhere near that 57% mark. Ever teacher either had an extremely low percentage of students pass or an extremely high percentage of students pass. We were therefore able to correlate all answers from all anonymous sources with student performance.

Here is the killer statistic.

When asked about educational philosophy, 100% of the teachers with nearly all failing students said that student achievement was primarily a result of student ability, and there was little a teacher could do to overcome that. 100% of the high achieving teachers said that all students were capable of learning at a high level, and it is up to the teacher to find the right way to reach low achieving students to help them get there.

 

[RainPilot]

I agree with you fully John. It very often is the instructors ability to adapt to the student that is at issue.

However, that comes with experience and I feel it's important to know your limitations when training people. I have seen a lot of people get very discouraged and give up on instructing because they see themselves as a failure when the truth is, it happens to everyone.

My guide is, when its not working, I assume its me. I do everything I can to fix it, but i don't do so at the cost of the student. if they need to go to someone more suited, I refer them then I work on myself to get it better next time. Over the years the number of referrals has dropped to pretty close to zero but I am always aware of the possibility.

 

[TheFife]

Although this is true, I also believe it is dangerous to make that notion a guide for your life. If you believe the students your teaching are beyond your ability, it gives you permission to stop trying to help them. It also gives you permission to assume that there is no reason to try to improve your instructional technique.

I was once part of a research team that investigated an experimental student testing program done at three grade level in a section of a large school district. the students were scored on a 4-point scale, essentially ranging from great to terrible. At all 3 grade levels, the overall student average had 57% of them scoring at level 3 (proficient). All the teachers knew that total average, and all the teachers knew how their students had scored. They did not know how any other teachers had scored.

Our team surveyed the entire group anonymously, asking a lot of questions to get a sense of what accounted for student success. The first question we asked was how their students had done on the test. From that answer, we knew a lot about them, because we knew something they didn't--no teacher had students perform anywhere near that 57% mark. Ever teacher either had an extremely low percentage of students pass or an extremely high percentage of students pass. We were therefore able to correlate all answers from all anonymous sources with student performance.

Here is the killer statistic.

When asked about educational philosophy, 100% of the teachers with nearly all failing students said that student achievement was primarily a result of student ability, and there was little a teacher could do to overcome that. 100% of the high achieving teachers said that all students were capable of learning at a high level, and it is up to the teacher to find the right way to reach low achieving students to help them get there.

Not to be pedantic here, but due to the experiment's design, it would be very inappropriate to draw a conclusion that teachers who believe all students are capable of learning at a high level, do a better job teaching (or have different outcomes in general). That's not meant to discourage someone from taking their teaching duties seriously. It's just a note on research interpretation.

 

[Neilwood]

I think over time as an instructor you learn different ways to get the same information across (often by watching others do it) and therefore become more adept at adapting. Just because it was taught one particular way on a course doesn't mean it HAS to be done that way - this is something a lot of people struggle to get past IMHO.

@Diving Dubai it sounds like the more experienced instructor found it to be a bit of a chore as well so don't take it too hard. Learn from their approach if possible.

I had it occasionally when teaching first aid - most people would get it pretty close first time, some needed a different approach and yet more didn't ever get it (even after a few tries with different instructors). Not a reflection on those instructors as I know they (and I) could teach 99% of students pretty well.

 

[boulderjohn]

I think over time as an instructor you learn different ways to get the same information across (often by watching others do it) and therefore become more adept at adapting.

Instructing experience brings with it multiple times of failing to get a student to do things right, trying to figure out why, and trying something else to make it work. Often you blunder into something that is helpful, and this becomes a tool for future instruction.

An example for me is mask clearing. The very first time someone showed me how to clear a mask, I did it easily. I never had any trouble clearing a mask or demonstrating a mask clear throughout my early diving and my instructor training. The person conducting my IDC would throw a problem or two my way, but not all that much. Consequently, when I became an instructor, I really had not had much experience with people not being able to clear their masks, and I had trouble figuring out what they were doing wrong when they couldn't. Eventually I saw about every reason a person might have trouble, and seeing those problems made me finally understand what was truly involved in a process that had seemed to me to be so intuitive. This led to a refined mask clearing briefing, a better demo pointing out the key attributes, and an improved ability to explain to a student why he or she is having trouble.

 

[Bubblesong]

An example for me is mask clearing. The very first time someone showed me how to clear a mask, I did it easily. I never had any trouble clearing a mask or demonstrating a mask clear throughout my early diving and my instructor training. The person conducting my IDC would throw a problem or two my way, but not all that much. Consequently, when I became an instructor, I really had not had much experience with people not being able to clear their masks, and I had trouble figuring out what they were doing wrong when they couldn't. Eventually I saw about every reason a person might have trouble, and seeing those problems made me finally understand what was truly involved in a process that had seemed to me to be so intuitive. This led to a refined mask clearing briefing, a better demo pointing out the key attributes, and an improved ability to explain to a student why he or she is having trouble.

i have heard there is no better way to learn than by teaching.

 

[boulderjohn]

Throughout all sports, you will see that most of the greatest coaches were decent but not great players. For many of them, skills came easy, and they have trouble spotting the reasons people are struggling. Frequently the skills at which they excelled are beyond the current playing level of their athletes, and they can't understand why the people they coach can't bypass the normal learning steps to get there. I saw that for many years as a very successful high school basketball coach, watching as the opponents my teams were beating tried to implement challenging strategies without having mastered the basic skills needed to make them work.

Imagine Michael Jordan explaining the most effective way to make a basket to 12-year olds at a summer camp: "Ok, it's very simple. Get a good running start with a speed dribble, plant your jumping foot on the foul line, grab the ball as you jump, hold it high over your head with one hand, and then slam it into the basket as you come down past it."

 

[Bubblesong]

Imagine Michael Jordan explaining the most effective way to make a basket to 12-year olds at a summer camp: "Ok, it's very simple. Get a good running start with a speed dribble, plant your jumping foot on the foul line, grab the ball as you jump, hold it high over your head with one hand, and then slam it into the basket as you come down past it."

I tried that, but guys two feet taller than me snatched the ball away while running backward and munching a sandwich with their free hand. I wish I were kidding.