When to start Advanced Open Water Classes

[alfie227]

I'll Just throw my 2 cents in.
I did AOW directly after OW whilst I was on holiday in Thailand. At the time, I didn't even think about it, it was offered to me, I was 18 and had a shiny new credit card, a dangerous combination.
I do have some regrets over taking the AOW straight away. Primarily that I didn't have the basics nailed in enough to really get the most out of it. I spent a good amount of the navigation dive worrying more about bouyancy than heading for example. With regards to wether or not it made me a better diver, I'd have to say no. I didn't learn enough about dive planning, air usage, or a number of other things.

With all of that said there were certainly some plus points. I wasn't all that confident after passing OW and doing a few dives with an instructor was certainly a nice safety net. Also, about two weeks later I went to a different site and was offered a dive on a wreck at 25 metres ( give or take ). Had I not done AOW I couldn't have done it. ( In hindsight I am well aware that AOW didnt fully prepare for such a dive, but at the time I was certainly pretty happy about it )

In my case I think the money could have been better spent on just getting some fun dives in. I think I would have been better having a look into AOW now that I've done 15 or so fun dives and I'm more comfortable in the water, but that's just me.

Alfie

 

[Doomnova]

You'll never get agreement as to whether to do it right away, or wait. And the reasons for/against are all valid.

So, I'll just say what I think (and did, at the time):

AOW after 25 dives.

Then Rescue after 50.

Kinda off topic but;

Rescue is one class if your diving alot I suggest people get done sooner rather than later 25-30 dives (did mine at about 27). If your diving a lot or even going with just a single buddy instead of group dives like dropins ect you could very well be in a place of unforgiving alternatives that could easily be addressed with proper training that in the end can teach you how to save their life and do in a way that won't get you in trouble. A well taught rescue course I think is one of the best classes a recreational diver can ever take.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

Ill have about 80 dives before starting AOW - at this point I don't think I'll be getting much out of it other than a card.

Then you'll be doing it with the wrong instructor.

A proper Advanced Course is not just five more "experience" dives with an instructor. That you can do without taking a course and paying any fees. A proper course will not only evaluate your basic skills before allowing you to even start the class, but will also tell you what you need to do to bring those skills up to snuff if need be. Once you are actually permitted to start the course it should introduce new skills on every singel dive that build on each other.

It should also include real face to face time with the instructor in the classroom going over the theory behind the dives and the new knowledge to conduct them safely. Otherwise you're just paying for a guide to hold your hand and give you a card that gives you access to dives you may not be ready for and that can turn and bite you in the butt.

An advanced class that includes a deep dive should include info on gas management and deco procedures. It should talk about rock bottom pressures, SAC rates, and redundant gas supplies. It should also let you see why an al80 is not an appropriate tank for a dive to 100 feet witout a redundant air supply. The Nav dive should give you skills that actually will allow you to develop that core skill in stages and not put unrealistic expectations on you that set you up to just get by.

It should not include dives that pass on no real dive skills or are just used to fill out the five dives. Stuff like altitude, boat, fish ID, etc. are better left for another time or just include the info.

And each dive should give you plenty of time to practice the new skills. I like to do some advanced dives in water less than 30 feet. Requires greater buoyancy control and results in each dive being at least an hour long. And since I will take no more than two students for the class I offer they get plenty of time to work on the bag shoots, stage bottle deployment, compass, natural, and reel and line skills, and rescue skills.

I am also a firm believer and had it written into the SEI standards for our Advanced Level classes that student must have basic rescue skills such as panicked diver, unresponsive diver from depth, supporting a diver at the surface, and rescue tows before they can start the advanced level classes or they must be included in the course at some point.

This is no biggie for those who have trained with us from the beginning as they are all Open Water skills under our program. But when I began to see students from other agencies that did not have them I was forced to do workshops and remediation to teach them. Rescue IMO should come before advanced if the skills have not been imparted already. They give a diver greater confidence and situational awareness that I feel is necessary for advanced training as well as skills that may likely be needed when doing advanced dives.

For this reason I don't think it is wise to start AOW until you've gotten in ten or twenty dives and worked on your basics. If you can't do all basic skills neutral, horizontal, in midwater you're probably not ready for advanced. If your buddy skills are not spot on, you're not ready for advanced. If you're not completely comfortable planning, executing, and safely returning from a dive with a buddy of equal training without the assistance of an instructor or DM you are definitely not ready for advanced.

---------- Post added June 2nd, 2013 at 12:35 PM ----------

You'll never get agreement as to whether to do it right away, or wait. And the reasons for/against are all valid.

So, I'll just say what I think (and did, at the time):

AOW after 25 dives.

Then Rescue after 50.

I'd reverse that. Rescue then AOW makes much more sense.

 

[SeaCobra]

I am about to start an Advanced Class with a couple of folks that have been diving for a few years. Instead of just cranking out the dives in the book, I interviewed them to discover their strengths and weakness and areas that they want to focus on to make them better, more advanced divers. Now we have tailored the course to meet their needs and we are looking forward to an exciting course

 

[Bob DBF]

When you finish OW you should be able to conduct dives with another OW diver independent of an instructor. The only way to find out is to make those independent dives. You should be able to execute any of the skills you learned in OW without a problem and you should have buoyancy under your control. When you are reasonably comfortable with this, take AOW.


As for being desirable as a buddy, just don't be a dick.




Bob
-----------------------------------
I may be old, but I'm not dead yet

 

[DevonDiver]

Then you'll be doing it with the wrong instructor.

I agree completely. Any decent instructor should be able to tailor the AOW course to provide challenge and benefit for a reasonably experienced diver. There's an awful lot of scope to shape the course, if the student's strengths, weaknesses and realistic goals are identified first...

 

[dorkito]

I'm stumbling into this thread after the party is over, but the next thing I would do if I were you is sign up for the peak performance buoyancy specialty. Those two dives transformed me as a diver. It's a lot more than just figuring out how much weight to strap on. And it's a lot of fun.

 

[TMHeimer]

Kinda off topic but;

Rescue is one class if your diving alot I suggest people get done sooner rather than later 25-30 dives (did mine at about 27). If your diving a lot or even going with just a single buddy instead of group dives like dropins ect you could very well be in a place of unforgiving alternatives that could easily be addressed with proper training that in the end can teach you how to save their life and do in a way that won't get you in trouble. A well taught rescue course I think is one of the best classes a recreational diver can ever take.

Yeah, a bit off topic and a much discussed topic, but I must whole heartedly agree. This is a pet peeve I've rambled on about often. Two new divers buddying with no rescue skills (like I did). To ME, scary. I know you're supposed to be able to dive with any other certified diver in similar conditions of training. What if one panics??? My AOW course was pretty good, but it could've waited until after Rescue. I also agree with dorkito that PP Buoyancy can be an excellent course.