Why are experienced divers getting killed and injured lately?

[pilot fish]

Not yet, but it is the next class I plan to take. The helium reduces the amount of nitrogen you breathe without increasing the O2. It's biggest benefit is the elimination of narcosis and more and more divers are using "recreational trimix" for dives between 100-130 feet for a clearer head. I know I'm impaired on deep wrecks on air or nitrox. IANTD has a rec trimix course.

You're really going after it, huh? My dive plans are not that ambitious. Good luck with that.

 

[stardiver]

Not yet, but it is the next class I plan to take. The helium reduces the amount of nitrogen you breathe without increasing the O2. It's biggest benefit is the elimination of narcosis and more and more divers are using "recreational trimix" for dives between 100-130 feet for a clearer head. I know I'm impaired on deep wrecks on air or nitrox. IANTD has a rec trimix course.

I will choose trimix for anything below 100 ft. You'll love the way you remember your dives, and totally appreciate the clear head you have during the dive. A nice clean deco will also put you back on the boat feeling great. Looks like you're already doing your homework on all this, though. Cool.

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[pilot fish]

The interesting thing I see here is that Pilotfish often thinks of dying. Many of his thoughts are along those lines and of course the threads bear out his fears.

As many have stated and I'll reword it, we all die. How we enjoy life before that event is up to us, live it in fear and you've wasted many fine moments.

For what it's worth I've made risk assessments of my diving, I have chosen not to do some types of diving until my daughter gets out of the house because first and foremost I'm a father. Between now and then I'll pursue training that will improve my diving. I will not allow others who die doing the things I do ruin my enjoyment. I know many pilot friends who've gone to the great reward in the sky while flying and I only look at it for what caused it and take that as a lesson. I do not look at it from the standpoint of many are dying and therefore so to can I, even if it is true. It's a waste of time to do anything other than look at it for the lesson and learn from it.

If you're constantly thinking you're going to dive, then my advice is to stop doing that and choose something else. Why on Earth are you beating yourself up causing stress over something that's not as risky as you believe? The stress you're causing yourself can cause you to die, believe it or not. Diving should be relaxing, not stressful.

Not really but that could be the case and I'm just not aware of it. It's more that I feel, if these careful divers can persih, then it must be more possible for me to get into trouble. Something like that. Will it prevent me from diving? No. It will prevent me from pushing the limits though.

 

[pilot fish]

I saw his picture and he looks pretty good, just for the record.

I think he works out at the New York Athletic Club, next to his office.

Pretty fit....

Well, thanks, dear heart. I was in better shape, endurance wise, while I was running several times a week but pains in my hips made me stop. I think running on concrete might have hurt my joints over the years. I'm long past the Corps level of physical shape. Now I'm only working out at the gym two times a week. Not enough.

 

[pilot fish]

I will choose trimix for anything below 100 ft. You'll love the way you remember your dives, and totally appreciate the clear head you have during the dive. A nice clean deco will also put you back on the boat feeling great. Looks like you're already doing your homework on all this, though. Cool.

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Does your buddy have to be on the same mixture? Can you donate to air diving, nitrox diver, receive from air or nitrox diver?

 

[Rick Murchison]

Not to distress you further, but it CAN happen to you as well.

Big Jet Driver was a careful, meticulous guy and a good diver. Ditto for a friend of mine who died diving about three weeks ago. You can be an excellent diver and make a mistake. You can be skilled and experienced and run into something for which you are, sadly, unprepared. The ocean is a dynamic environment and occasionally wind, currents, or other natural phenomena will defeat you. Sometimes it comes down to fate - you decide to do X, the non-fatal option was likely Y. You can be careful and situationally aware, and still die. There are no guarantees.

"Any diver can die on any dive at any time."

It's good to remember that, and prepare for as many worst case scenarios as you can. The fact that 99% of the time most divers have uneventful dives does not eliminate the grim statistics that annually we can count on losing a half dozen or so divers along the eastern seaboard between Florida and New York. Some are heart attacks or medical issues, some are weather/current-related, some are poor decisions, and some are simply never seen again.

I think that if you don't have that thought somewhere in your mind as you prepare for, and practice, and then actually go out and execute your dives, THAT's what I find scary. This avocation is not one that should be undertaken casually or lightly.

You can do everything right and still die. But doing everything right reduces your risks considerably.

Good grief! This is the kind of post that causes the $$$ to gleam in the underwriters' eyes, and our rates to skyrocket!
What you say is true enough... but statistically insignificant. Diving is still one of the safest recreational activities there is.
It is also true to say that you can do everything right driving and still get run over at a red light by an 18 wheeler.
Rick

 

[Kim]

Diving is still one of the safest recreational activities there is.

Actually...more than twice as safe as actual swimming...
http://www.scubaboard.com/showpost.php?p=2039128&postcount=6

 

[stardiver]

Depends on what they did during the two years they were wet. Not really relevant to the topic of incidents amoung experienced divers, though. Are you saying it applies to the recent incidents?

Unless someone is diving very agressively for 2 years, maybe 5 days a week, I would not have confidence that they could possibly do enough to warrant the experience to undertake technical diving. I'm not aware personally of all the diving history of some of the recent deaths discussed here. Based on my experience in teaching technical diving and talking with other tech instructors, too many divers are undertaking tech training within the first year of diving, or before being really comfortable with gear. Perhaps I'm too old-fashioned in that I want true experience in my tech students.

Red flags to me, based on experience, include students who: (all true stories BTW)

- was dishonest on their medical history and another student later sees them taking an insulin injection (sent the student packing for lying)
- shows up for classroom with a computer-generated log of 50 dives in the last year and a "credit" of 100 dives over the last 30 years
- comes to an "orientation" dive (do this with students I've not seen in the water previously) with all brand-new gear and no clue how to use it
- took a chamber ride for an apparently undeserved hit on OW dives 3&4, and refused the echocardiogram for PFO recomended by hyperbaric doc
- thought the first dive after above chamber ride was conservative at 63 ft for 40 minutes, at night
- had undergone surgery for stomach-stapling 8 mos earlier and not disclosed that on medical form
- claimed to be advanced trimix and a technical DM, yet failed to make one dive of 5 attempts at a site that is a very easy dive, usually used for OW training; simply was unable to submerge on all 5 attempts
- on surface in adv. nitrox class at easy dive site with instructor, having difficulty managing gear, wanting to thumb a dive, but bullied into doing the dive by instructor


Particularly memorable was a class of 6 students - 2 PADI instructors with 1000+ to 3000+ dives apiece, 1 PADI DM with nearly maybe 800 dives and cave training, and 3 PADI DM's with 200 to 300 dives apiece. They all did very well, but there was a clear difference in the more experienced divers and they needed more time and practice on just about everything.

Do you see any of the recent accident victims detailed above? Do you see why I am convinced that there is no substitute for experience gained over time?

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[stardiver]

Ok so speak to me like im 12 here for a minute and answer this.

What is the Most Major thing to NOT screw up when diving? I would assume is the whole compression thing correct? Keep in mind ive yet to hit the water, still reading the book. We hit our first dive this Saturday in the pool.

H2Andy said:
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most major thing not to screw up is not to hold your breath and do a quick
ascent. the air will rip your lungs apart as the pressure decreases and its volume
increases. it's called arterial gas embolism and is usualy 100% fatal.

the second major thing not to screw up is not to get a cheap class and get certified quickly. get the best instructor you can, who will teach you not just out of the book, and who will take the time to properly introduce you into diving.

good training will prepare you for diving. follow your training, and your odds of
being ok go through the roof.
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Excellent advice. I would add:
- your C-card is your license to learn. Do 50 nice easy shallow dives as soon as you can. Get comfortable.
- find a group of divers to mentor you. A club, perhaps; be choosy.
- 2nd rule of diving (Andy gave you the 1st): Anyone can call a dive at any time for any reason, no questions asked.
- Watch carefully for complacency. On trips, my students and guests will get the last-day lecture: "We've had a really great trip. Let's stay on our toes, watch out for one another, and be extra careful today. Complacency kills."

Dive safely, and have way too much fun in your class!

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[stardiver]

Take it with a grain of salt, since I am a newbie myself, but my dos centavos...


The PADI CD and my instructor pounded it into my head over and over... THE NUMBER ONE RULE OF DIVING IS TO NEVER HOLD YOUR BREATH!

Panic is probably the thing mentioned the 2nd most. That is why you will (or should, anyway) practice breathing without your mask, replacing your mask, buddy breathing, emergency ascents, finding your regulator if it comes out of your mouth, etc... these are all related to common RELATIVELY MINOR things that become MAJOR only if you panic.

If you lose your mask, you should be able to keep your composure and breathe, and either replace it or surface safely without it.

If your reg comes out of your mouth, you should be able to find it within a couple swings of your arm and put it back in.

If you are low or out of air, the buddy system will save your @ss.

The most important lessons you will learn in the class are what to do about all the failures (human and equipment) that may happen, and if you study and practice well, then hopefully your training will kick in and you won't panic.

I did get to do buddy breathing in a non-practice situation while in Cozumel. On my last dive, I was a little lower on air before the safety stop than my instructor (with whom I was diving) liked, so we held onto each other during the stop, and watched my gauge. When it got down too close for comfort, she went ahead and signaled for me to take hers. I used hers for the ascent with no problems.

It seemed like such a very simple thing, but it may not have felt so simple and natural to do if we hadn't practiced it so many times.

Wise words, Lisa, whether or not from a newbie. You had a very good instructor. I'll dive with you any time.

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