Why do I need a Nitrox certification?

[boulderjohn]

Do you know any divers that have killed themselves on EANx? If it was so simple and easy, nobody would kill themselves with it right?

No, I don't. Do you?

I have read every incident in the annual DAN fatality report for the last several years, and I regularly read the A & I section of ScubaBoard. I am trying to remember of a single case of someone dying as a result of using recreational nitrox. I can think of a couple of cases involving more advanced levels of training, divers who use multiple gases and accidentally breathe the wrong mix at depth. Of course, my memory is faulty, so you may have to remind me.

 

[tomfcrist]

Agree!


Why?

Alberto (aka eDiver)

Why? Because some 16 yo's dad can take a nitrox exam online for his kid.......sounds far fetched, but ive seen parents try to cheat for thier kids in an OW class.

---------- Post added May 3rd, 2012 at 11:39 AM ----------
Boulderjohn......to answer your question :

Johnny Longblades, Key west, Cayman Salvager, 7/08/07. Took an O2 hit......RIP

.

 

[NAM001]

I am not going to try to pick a fight ..our point is is only valid if you have one student. look at it from a students perspective. You have 8 in a class you aregetting 100 and hour for ding what can be taught online for 50 +/-. When i took my course it was 120 ish, one on one. took 3-4 hours to coplete.. at the end the leddger showed that the inst got 30-40 and hour for slide show. and give an exam. The course was a wiz for me only because of prior occupations, but none theless, i had a card for 150 ,included 2 dives. Lets add on to this that many believe a lot of fees are not reported and are tax free. It doesnt make it true but it does make it part of the reality of the students. Not till i went through the advanced nitros course material did i find anything resembling complex. basic and aow is definately a tougher course.



@AFTERDARK,

Before you shoot out claims like "A $100+ nitrox course is a rip off pure and simple." Try to see it from an instructors point of veiw. I am going to spend about 8 hrs teaching someone how to safely dive nitrox, which means i am a theory teacher, and a math teacher......so $12 per hour is a rip off? Do you think people like me should work for free? The truth is, Instructors dont make alot of money teaching diving. We do it because we love it, and we want to create a culture of safety in the dive industry. If you think that we are overpaid, i challenge you to prove it to me.

Yes we still teach PPO2 and gas laws in OW courses, and no we dont have the time to teach a nitrox course during an OW course.

 

[scubamask]

These questions highlight to me what is wrong with much of scuba training. I think I'm better prepared to answer them based on all the reading I've done on SB and elsewhere more than from my Nitrox course. That is not a criticism of my course or instructor but more the reality of the difference from learning over an extended period of time and from multiple sources rather than any type of condensed classroom sessions. Now maybe if I hadn't taken the course in the first place I would have had a harder time learning later from self reading, but I'd say having the manual as a resource material to refer back to as I read other information has been more important that the actual initial course and instructor sessions. And that brings me to my point of what is wrong with typical scuba training, it's primary objective is certification not learning, and there is a big difference between the two.

So, without an instructor's guidance, most people would probably answer: b, a, and c.

But, is that correct??

 

[tomfcrist]

I dont take it that way at all. Yes if you are teaching 8 students at a time you can make a killing, however the majority of instructors (other instructors not from florida can correct me if im wrong) dont do nitrox classes with that many students.....not because we dont want to, but because we dont have that many students at one time wanting the course.......the only way for me to collect 8 nitrox sudents at once is to create a waiting list, and by the time i have 8 students, the first student on that list went elsewhere for a 1on1 course for the same price(and didnt have to wait).

The blanket statement that a Nitrox course for $100+ is robbery insinuates that I and instructors like me are crooks, just looking to leach money out of folks.....the opposite is true. Students generally want to spend as little money and effort as possible to obtain thier certifications, which to me means they want me to take all the liability,, water down my standards, and give them a C-card because they have a heartbeat. Not in my classes! If someone doesnt think a Nitrox class is worth while, please audit one of mine......or JimLapenta's......or NWGreatfuldiver's....or a whole slew of instructors on this board that do evberything in our power to give our students the best learning experiance possible and produce great divers.

 

[redacted]

Maybe for a PADI course......

I agree that it isnt too hard to comprehend, but i would never certify someone to use nitrox if they are unaware of the risks involved, or unable to calculate their PPO2/EAD/MOD. This really cant be verified online, but must be done in front of an instructor. Do you know any divers that have killed themselves on EANx? If it was so simple and easy, nobody would kill themselves with it right?

I don't believe I have ever heard of a recreational diver who was killed as a result of using nitrox. All I recall were tech divers who pushed the limits and/or mixed up tanks.

 

[theduckguru]

I don't think the nitrox course fee is a rip off, I think paying to take any class that I can can learn by reading a 150 page book is wasteful.

I dont take it that way at all. Yes if you are teaching 8 students at a time you can make a killing, however the majority of instructors (other instructors not from florida can correct me if im wrong) dont do nitrox classes with that many students.....not because we dont want to, but because we dont have that many students at one time wanting the course.......the only way for me to collect 8 nitrox sudents at once is to create a waiting list, and by the time i have 8 students, the first student on that list went elsewhere for a 1on1 course for the same price(and didnt have to wait).

The blanket statement that a Nitrox course for $100+ is robbery insinuates that I and instructors like me are crooks, just looking to leach money out of folks.....the opposite is true. Students generally want to spend as little money and effort as possible to obtain thier certifications, which to me means they want me to take all the liability,, water down my standards, and give them a C-card because they have a heartbeat. Not in my classes! If someone doesnt think a Nitrox class is worth while, please audit one of mine......or JimLapenta's......or NWGreatfuldiver's....or a whole slew of instructors on this board that do evberything in our power to give our students the best learning experiance possible and produce great divers.

 

[tomfcrist]

I don't believe I have ever heard of a recreational diver who was killed as a result of using nitrox. All I recall were tech divers who pushed the limits and/or mixed up tanks.

Refer to post #162

---------- Post added May 3rd, 2012 at 03:11 PM ----------

I don't think the nitrox course fee is a rip off, I think paying to take any class that I can can learn by reading a 150 page book is wasteful.

You are correct, as long as you are not looking to get a C-card. How PADI gets away with it online is baffling. How are they verifying that the name on the C-card is the person actually doing the course online?

 

[boulderjohn]

I don't believe I have ever heard of a recreational diver who was killed as a result of using nitrox. All I recall were tech divers who pushed the limits and/or mixed up tanks.

Refer to post #162

:
Johnny Longblades, Key west, Cayman Salvager, 7/08/07. Took an O2 hit......RIP

Do you have a link for that? Google yielded no hits.

Let's assume that this person did indeed die of such a hit 5 years ago. Does one person 5 years ago constitute the implication in post 159 that it is happening a lot?

 

[HansB]

I took the PADI Nitrox and Rescue courses last summer... lets see how I do.

1. You go to pick up your nitrox tank at the dive shop and it is labeled 35.2% O2. You should plan to dive with this nitrox mixture to a maximum depth of:
a. 99 feet
b. 95 feet
c. 90 feet
d. I don't know the answer​

Rounding to 36% and PPO2 of 1.4 using the the formula, mod = 33*(1.4/0.36 -1) = 95.33 feet, Answer B.

2. You are diving with a nitrox mixture of 34.8% O2 along the deck of a wreck at 90 feet. Your buddy (who is nitrox certified) has assured you that it is safe as long as you stay above the deck. You look around for your buddy and finally locate him lying completely motionless on the sand at the bottom of the shipwreck (which you know is at 115 feet). You should:
a. have not planned and done this dive with that nitrox mixture
b. swim down to assess your buddy and determine if you can assist or rescue him
c. spend no more than one minute looking for another diver to go down to that depth (since you had noticed all the other divers on the boat were using regular air) before surfacing normally to get help
d. immediately do a normal ascent to the surface to get help from someone who has air or nitrox 32%​

Using a PPO2 of 1.4 and rounding to 35% I have a MOD of 99 feet. But given this is a potential rescue situation, a short time with PP02 of 1.6 and using the exact O2%, I have a MOD of 118. I should be able to choose option B.
In reality at 99 feet, I couldn't do that kind of math in my head especially considering narcosis, but given the safety factors using 1.4 and rounding up O2% I probably would have attempted B anyway. And if I wasn't too over task loaded to look at my computer's PPO2 readout.

3. You are diving with a 36% nitrox mixture and had planned to dive to a maximum depth of 90 feet. 35 minutes into the dive you notice your depth gauge indicates that you are at 100 feet, and you begin to feel numbness and tingling in your left arm. You should:
a. immediately ascend to 90 feet and if the symptoms go away, continue the dive
b. recognize that nitrox 36% is actually safe up to 115 feet, and that you are probably just anxious
c. terminate the dive immediately and ascend directly to the surface at 30 feet per minute.
d. none of the above.​

C, when you feel symptoms, end the immediately and ascend safely. One of my first deep nitrox dives after being certified was to 110 feet on 28%. At about 4 minutes bottom time, still near the mooring line, I felt very light headed. It hit very suddenly and I actually feared I was going to black out. I immediately went to the line and ascended to 80 feet where the feeling went completely away. I continued ascended slowly to 20 feet and did safety stop. While it was most likely just the effects of narcosis... It freaked me out pretty good and made me pay a lot more attention to any symptoms on following dives.