Why no weight pockets with doubles?

[Degenerate]

I dive with old school LP steel 50 doubles, steel 72 doubles, and steel 96 doubles(rarely) and do not own a dual bladder BC so I only have 1 inflator connected.

I feel like this is a very important thing to highlight about your arguments.
I dive D12 232 bar tanks which when properly filled are 10kg+ negative, add in the steel plate they are bolted to and the rest of the non floaty parts of your gear and there is more negative weight than you can swim up with.
I would never dream of diving that setup in a wetsuit because it would be stupid and reckless, so I don't.
I got friends who dive 300bar doubles and those are even more negative, they would never hop in with a wetsuit as well.
A drysuit is not the only option for redundancy with buoyancy, but for many of us on this board we already have the drysuit due to water temps so it is the natural (and for some of us, the only sensible) choice for us.
You seem too focused on the fact that what works for you in the places where you dive, and with the gear you dive, would also work for everyone else, but it simply wouldn't.
Apples and oranges.

 

[Divin'Papaw]

It's not just doubles divers who believe in a balanced rig and no ditchable weight. These days I dive a steel single with a SS plate exclusively. I have no ditchable weight. I have full confidence that in the event of a major wing failure I can either swim my rig up from depth and ditch it (if necessary) or preferably use one of my DSMBs as redundant buoyancy. I always dive with 2 DSMBs. I regularly practice ascending slowly from depth using only my DSMB for the buoyancy I need to ascend.

 

[AfterDark]

I feel like this is a very important thing to highlight about your arguments.
I dive D12 232 bar tanks which when properly filled are 10kg+ negative, add in the steel plate they are bolted to and the rest of the non floaty parts of your gear and there is more negative weight than you can swim up with.
I would never dream of diving that setup in a wetsuit because it would be stupid and reckless, so I don't.
I got friends who dive 300bar doubles and those are even more negative, they would never hop in with a wetsuit as well.
A drysuit is not the only option for redundancy with buoyancy, but for many of us on this board we already have the drysuit due to water temps so it is the natural (and for some of us, the only sensible) choice for us.
You seem too focused on the fact that what works for you in the places where you dive, and with the gear you dive, would also work for everyone else, but it simply wouldn't.
Apples and oranges.

I dive and equip myself to the conditions of the dive(s) I'm making. That's why I use a weight belt sometimes, weight pockets sometimes, no lead sometimes. I use single hose regulators mostly but for taking pictures of fish I use a double hose.
My 96cuft tanks as doubles are anchors, full or empty they are negative. Would I jump from a boat with those on without a dry suit? No. Would I go to the stern platform and gently enter the water and dive those same tanks in a wet suit? Yes. If I could, would I walk into the water in a wet suit and dive those tanks. Yes

The other thing is equipment care and awareness. I check my gear for flaws or weak spots, loose screws, clamps, lanyards and such often; and always pre-dive. Hoses just don't pop off a BC out of blue for no reason, The clamp may have loosen, or since the last dive somehow the hose was strained and already part way off. Usually an inspection will revel things that need attention.

 

[AfterDark]

It's not just doubles divers who believe in a balanced rig and no ditchable weight. These days I dive a steel single with a SS plate exclusively. I have no ditchable weight. I have full confidence that in the event of a major wing failure I can either swim my rig up from depth and ditch it (if necessary) or preferably use one of my DSMBs as redundant buoyancy. I always dive with 2 DSMBs. I regularly practice ascending slowly from depth using only my DSMB for the buoyancy I need to ascend.

I carry a SMB and a lift bag but that means I'm senile.

Have you practiced with it at all? I tried my lift bag from 100FSW with an empty BCD and my 96cuft steel doubles. I held a 30FPM ascent and did a safety stop using only the lift bag and my fins.

 

[Divin'Papaw]

I carry a SMB and a lift bag but that means I'm senile.

Have you practiced with it at all? I tried my lift bag from 100FSW with an empty BCD and my 96cuft steel doubles. I held a 30FPM ascent and did a safety stop using only the lift bag and my fins.

I practice this regularly. Diving a steel single these days is alot easier to practice this. I shoot the DSMB from depth with a tank that is down around 750-1000 psi, empty my wing and "pull" myself up the line. I can make a nice, slow ascent. Doing this I can easily re-inflate my wing if necessary as this is only a test. It's not as comfortable of course and I'm not in perfect trim but it's very manageable.

I have a large and small Halcyon DSMB. I typically use the small but I have the large available both if I need to be more visible on the surface or if I need more buoyancy.

 

[Degenerate]

I dive and equip myself to the conditions of the dive(s) I'm making. That's why I use a weight belt sometimes, weight pockets sometimes, no lead sometimes. I use single hose regulators mostly but for taking pictures of fish I use a double hose.
My 96cuft tanks as doubles are anchors, full or empty they are negative. Would I jump from a boat with those on without a dry suit? No. Would I go to the stern platform and gently enter the water and dive those same tanks in a wet suit? Yes. If I could, would I walk into the water in a wet suit and dive those tanks. Yes

The other thing is equipment care and awareness. I check my gear for flaws or weak spots, loose screws, clamps, lanyards and such often; and always pre-dive. Hoses just don't pop off a BC out of blue for no reason, The clamp may have loosen, or since the last dive somehow the hose was strained and already part way off. Usually an inspection will revel things that need attention.

How come you're not comfortable jumping off a boat in the same gear you would be comfortable going down the ladder of a boat with?
If your rig and wetsuit can comfortably float you when going down by the ladder then it would surely pop you right back up to the surface if you took a jump in.
No?

Also curious, because how many cf a tank can hold literally says nothing about how positive or negative it is.
What is the volume and fill pressure of them, and what is the weight?
There are a lot of factors needed to form an opinion in these type of threads, and most of them are usually ignored.

Also want to point out that I am not trying to bash you or your opinion here, just trying to understand it and possibly learn from it.

 

[NAM001]

Making statements like that the only way to safely dive heavy steel doubles is with a dry suit is IMO inappropriate.

Just an opinion. the strong words used perhaps innappropriate but the intent is sound.
The DS serves more than just a bacakup lift device. it is thermal protection against the extended exposure time multi tank diving provides. the dual bladder wing only replaces one function of a DS. On the flip side the rule of thumb of doubles equates to DS may have been out before dual bladders came to be. dual bladders have their own problems that grow from lack of use. A DS is used each and every time and can be relied on to provide its function more than a dial bladder.

 

[NAM001]

I practice this regularly. Diving a steel single these days is alot easier to practice this. I shoot the DSMB from depth with a tank that is down around 750-1000 psi, empty my wing and "pull" myself up the line. I can make a nice, slow ascent. Doing this I can easily re-inflate my wing if necessary as this is only a test. It's not as comfortable of course and I'm not in perfect trim but it's very manageable.

I have a large and small Halcyon DSMB. I typically use the small but I have the large available both if I need to be more visible on the surface or if I need more buoyancy.

when you do this is it with basically full doubles because it is a complete new game when you get t lower PSI's.

 

[Divin'Papaw]

when you do this is it with basically full doubles because it is a complete new game when you get t lower PSI's.

I mentioned I'm not diving doubles these days and that this is with a steel single. I only chimed in to say that the concept of diving a balanced rig applies to singles divers as well.

 

[NAM001]

I mentioned I'm not diving doubles these days and that this is with a steel single. I only chimed in to say that the concept of diving a balanced rig applies to singles divers as well.

understood. my thought is that you can easily climb a line brom a lift bag when doing singles or near empty doubles in a wing failure and in a wet suit. My question was regarding how your position would relate to full doubles at the start of a dive when you are perhaps 25+ heavy. how easy is it to use the lift bag in that situation. I BTW no longer dive doubles either. As a side note GI3 had a video where he covered this issue and his solution was to dive trimix where the gas weight change was but a very few pounds. for the common diver that solution is too expensive. Especially for rec divers.