Why no weight pockets with doubles?

[AfterDark]

How come you're not comfortable jumping off a boat in the same gear you would be comfortable going down the ladder of a boat with?
If your rig and wetsuit can comfortably float you when going down by the ladder then it would surely pop you right back up to the surface if you took a jump in.
No?

Also curious, because how many cf a tank can hold literally says nothing about how positive or negative it is.
What is the volume and fill pressure of them, and what is the weight?
There are a lot of factors needed to form an opinion in these type of threads, and most of them are usually ignored.

Also want to point out that I am not trying to bash you or your opinion here, just trying to understand it and possibly learn from it.

Fair enough,
Because gently entering the water almost 100% precludes an accidental disconnect of the corrugated hose causing a pretty bad leak. If it's shallow I may take the jump, but if I'm diving the U853 120FSW or USS Bass 170FSW or similar dives then no jumping with a wet suit too risky. Around here those dives are usually done dry anyway, but I have done the U853 wet with my 72 doubles many times, some of those times back in the 1980's were done with a horse collar.
Now if the corrugated hose got disconnected during the dive then the lift bag comes into use, or depending on the event the dropping of a weight or two, or both.

Conditions dictate actions

 

[Degenerate]

Fair enough,
Because gently entering the water almost 100% precludes an accidental disconnect of the corrugated hose causing a pretty bad leak. If it's shallow I may take the jump, but if I'm diving the U853 120FSW or USS Bass 170FSW or similar dives then no jumping with a wet suit too risky. Around here those dives are usually done dry anyway, but I have done the U853 wet with my 72 doubles many times, some of those times back in the 1980's were done with a horse collar.
Now if the corrugated hose got disconnected during the dive then the lift bag comes into use, or depending on the event the dropping of a weight or two, or both.

Conditions dictate actions

So for some conditions (like the ones you just mentioned) you would say having a drysuit on is definitely beneficial, even more so than a lift bag (that probably can't be deployed fast enough) or a dual bladder (where you either can't swap the LP hose fast enough, or the corrugated hose being disconnected which is a disaster)?
That is the argument we are trying to make, albeit in different and in some cases far fetched, ways.
If my drysuit is a must have in some situations, why would I not use it in all situations and not have to worry about any other potential problems that could arise in certain situations with other gear setups?
I prefer to keep my gear the same for (almost) every dive, because it gives me a lot of comfort knowing that I always have the same gear and the procedures that I have drilled into my brain for so many dives will be easily executed in an emergency.
I (and many others with me) don't see a reason to change their redundant buoyancy for every other dive, we simply go with the drysuit because it is reliable and in many cases it is already a must have piece of equipment.
You won't ever suffer a hose disconnect on a drysuit by jumping into the water from the boat, and you won't ever have to look for and find your drysuit to inflate it and regain your buoyancy like you would with a lift bag.
For most of us a drysuit is the only sensible choice when diving heavy/very negative steel tanks, and many of us are very adamant (and sometimes a bit offensive) about that being the best choice by far.
A drysuit may not (and probably isn't, although I personally would never use a wetsuit) be the best solution in every single situation where you dive doubles, but there are some very good arguments for it.

Like you say, conditions dictate actions

 

[Storker]

In case you need some kilos, V-weights and similar things are much simpler than a belt, and the belt is much simpler than pockets.

I have two different undersuits. One for summer water, one for winter water. My weighting requirement differs by some 3.5 kg. I really, really prefer carrying that difference in pockets so I can use the same belt no matter which undersuit I'm using. Adding or removing weights to my belt is a lot more awkward than dumping some weight from my pockets.

 

[AfterDark]

So for some conditions (like the ones you just mentioned) you would say having a drysuit on is definitely beneficial, even more so than a lift bag (that probably can't be deployed fast enough) or a dual bladder (where you either can't swap the LP hose fast enough, or the corrugated hose being disconnected which is a disaster)?
That is the argument we are trying to make, albeit in different and in some cases far fetched, ways.
If my drysuit is a must have in some situations, why would I not use it in all situations and not have to worry about any other potential problems that could arise in certain situations with other gear setups?
I prefer to keep my gear the same for (almost) every dive, because it gives me a lot of comfort knowing that I always have the same gear and the procedures that I have drilled into my brain for so many dives will be easily executed in an emergency.
I (and many others with me) don't see a reason to change their redundant buoyancy for every other dive, we simply go with the drysuit because it is reliable and in many cases it is already a must have piece of equipment.
You won't ever suffer a hose disconnect on a drysuit by jumping into the water from the boat, and you won't ever have to look for and find your drysuit to inflate it and regain your buoyancy like you would with a lift bag.
For most of us a drysuit is the only sensible choice when diving heavy/very negative steel tanks, and many of us are very adamant (and sometimes a bit offensive) about that being the best choice by far.
A drysuit may not (and probably isn't, although I personally would never use a wetsuit) be the best solution in every single situation where you dive doubles, but there are some very good arguments for it.

Like you say, conditions dictate actions

I never posted anything about not using a dry suit when conditions warrant the use of one, which is environmental conditions, cold water, that was why dry suits where developed cold water, not diving doubles.

I just don't like be told by some tadpole that after decades of diving safely, even rescuing others divers that I'm diving unsafe because I'm using a wet suit while diving doubles, or using a weight belt or weight pockets that's just nonsense. I'd be long dead by now instead of closing in on 3000 dives.

I'm not diving in 72F water in a dry suit just because I may have 2 tanks on my back. When I'd much prefer to dive in a wet suit anyway. There are many different means and equipment to reduce the risks and dive just as safely.

While one answer to a problem may seem inviting, IMO options and as many as possible, is the key to getting back to the surface.

Also curious, because how many cf a tank can hold literally says nothing about how positive or negative it is.
What is the volume and fill pressure of them, and what is the weight?
There are a lot of factors needed to form an opinion in these type of threads, and most of them are usually ignored.

Sorry I missed this in my reply. My 96 cuft are anchors memory tells me 12lb neg full 6lb neg MT but I could be off some. Anyway together they are VERY negative. If I used them as doubles a lot which I don't, I'd consider attaching some kind of non compressible floatation to them. When I use one has a single I use 8 lbs of lead and a SS B/P 6lbs, with a 7mm famer john wet suit, 5mm boots, 2mm hood. Anchors that hold air! As doubles they over weight me even without weights. I don't do much deep diving anymore so those are my single tanks.

If I go to NC I use my 72s as IDs 3 tanks works good. I surface post 1st dive with one MT tank and one 1/2 or more. I replace the MT tank with a full tank and ready for dive two. Same goes for wreck diving here in RI.

 

[Storker]

you can put more gas inside it

Which may be a good thing from a safety POV.

When I surface after a dive, I always make sure to close my shoulder dump valve and inflate my suit. It helps me ride higher in the water, which usually isn't necessary, but might well come in handy if things get sticky. An inflated suit is a bit more awkward WRT movement, but being sure to stay at the surface with my gob above the water no matter the condition of my wing bladder is priceless.

 

[Storker]

most people I know started using dry-suits when they switched from recreational diving to technical diving

Most people I know certified OW (or similarly) in a drysuit. And have hardly ever dived wet, because we only do that when on vacation in a warmer country.

 

[Degenerate]

I never posted anything about not using a dry suit when conditions warrant the use of one, which is environmental conditions, cold water, that was why dry suits where developed cold water, not diving doubles.

I just don't like be told by some tadpole that after decades of diving safely, even rescuing others divers that I'm diving unsafe because I'm using a wet suit while diving doubles, or using a weight belt or weight pockets that's just nonsense. I'd be long dead by now instead of closing in on 3000 dives.

I'm not diving in 72F water in a dry suit just because I may have 2 tanks on my back. When I'd much prefer to dive in a wet suit anyway. There are many different means and equipment to reduce the risks and dive just as safely.

While one answer to a problem may seem inviting, IMO options and as many as possible, is the key to getting back to the surface.

I hear you.
I know why drysuits were developed, and I am very happy that they were.
I'm just saying that for some of us it is the most logical choice for redundant buoyancy, and as such we won't touch or even look at other options, because a drysuit is the best one for us.
Some of "us" subscribe to the DIR system and the sentence above goes from being one solution to being the only solution.
That is our choice and we've learned to love it, so naturally we will promote it to others because it works great for us.
In the same way that we would recommend a restaurant to our friends if their food was awesome and so on, because we really enjoy it and it worked for us.
Doesn't mean that it is the only way that things can be done, just means it is the best way we think a thing should be done.
Again, apples and oranges, everyone is different and what works for someone might not work for someone else.
Fortunately, there is no scuba police and we are all free to dive as we like, in whatever way we like

 

[NAM001]

no matTER WHAT YOU CHOOSE AS LONG AS YOUR CONFIGURATION CAN provide timely recovery from any malfunction, it is good. those that dive 200 ft have a considerable longer list of concerns as compared to 60 ft divers. after you can't CESA from 200 ft. and a 3 mil neo suit may not hack it after an hour in 75 F water on a 2 hour dive.

 

[AfterDark]

It was my understanding that in the US, you were supposed to get a dry suit cert before using one. That may be wrong. I haven't checked up on it. I do know that my local dive shops offer dry suit training.

A dry suit does have the added danger/hassle of getting upside down with your feet full of air. that does require an extra skill to get you out of that situation.

I also do understand that for people who dive dry often, it becomes second nature & does not add significant cognitive workload to the diver once you are good at it.

Not in the 1970's or now but the 70's had no DS classes anyway. DS have been around since the 1950's.

 

[ChuckP]

Joy, more insinuation that your number of years diving somehow justifies the logical fallacies present in your posting.

Do you dive with both inflators connected? If you’re in a set of, say, full 104/108/112/119/133/120 at depth with a compressed wetsuit, do you honestly believe you could shoot a bag or connect the second pressurized inflator before hitting the bottom if your wing suffered a catastrophic failure (say elbow removing itself from the wing)? When was the last time you practiced either?

You continue to use the word “safe,” and pretend your statements are universally practicable, but a significant number of people would die trying either of the above over a wall/bottom below MOD. But hey, maybe those so many years of not having died make you immune to such practices.

If you’re diving with both connected, you’re encouraged not to reply. That’s a real nice way to kill yourself.

Edit: typo no to not

I guess you are to good to manually inflate a BCD - that’s a PADI confined water OW dive skill.

If your wing fails and you are that overweighted and skill less that you can’t fin up while manually inflating your second bladder - well you must be a GUE diver.....