10 year olds and diving

[kidspot]

... YMCA is the lone holdout (please tell me there are others with integrity on this issue) who has not lowered their minimum age to 10...

IANTD is still 12 for Jr. OW and 15 for OW.

I have no doubt that some 10 year olds, and even some much younger have the physical abilities needed to dive. I just finished certifying a teen (13 1/2) who could have passed all the physical skills at 6 or 7 years of age, but would have had very little understanding of the concepts behind why certain things were important.

I have 3 standards for when I will teach a child (these are my personal criteria)

1) Mental maturity: Student must be able to learn the concepts required. As part of my curriculum we cover formulas for calculating Rock Bottom, MOD, Best Mix, EAD and more. Until I am able to teach a student these concepts they are too young IMO. Most of this is basic algebra, and while I do not mind teaching someone how to do math, young children are only getting introduced to multiplication and division in 3rd-5th grades (8-10 yrs old) - makes learning how to calculate SAC and gas consumption difficult (Which is on the OW exam)

2) Physical Maturity: Do they have the stamina to carry their gear, perform the skills and complete a surface swim afterwards while towing another diver?

3) Emotional Maturity: Are they able to focus on more than just breathing. Do they have the situational awareness to safely be in the water.

Obviously some adults do not meet these requirements, but I'm a little more stringent with children because Adults have one thing children do not ... Experience.

btw - I normally like students to be 14 (the above case was an exception based upon LOTS of experience with the individual in question)

Just my .02 cents worth

Aloha, Tim

P.S. If a parent wishes to teach their own child ... now that's a whole other issue, but I'm not a parent, as a teacher I have limited time to work with and become familiar with the abilities of my students. A parent has years to develop and work with their own child.

 

[MeiLing]

If the child has the maturity and the desire, I would consider it. One of my friends has the ScubaPro BubbleMaker rig and we put the little ones on it all the time and let them "SCUBA" around the tidepools, under supervision. They all are itching to be certified.

Yes, it is not clear what the risks of nitrogen absorbtion is on bone growth, but considering how many things we are exposed to where we don't know the risks, I'd still consider it for my child, if I had one.

 

[kidspot]

...Yes, it is not clear what the risks of nitrogen absorbtion is on bone growth, but considering how many things we are exposed to where we don't know the risks, I'd still consider it for my child, if I had one.

This, in my opinion is a big reason for certifying young divers in the use of nitrox and having them dive it. Keep nitrogen to a minimum...

 

[kidspot]

Here are some more recent abstracts from the UHMS annual meetings on children. Thought some of you might find them a good read:

A CASE OF RECURRING NEUROLOGIC DECOMPRESSION ILLNESS: OR IS IT?
Worth, Patel, and Freiberger. 2005 UHMS Abstract
RRR ID: 1685

Treatment of Diving Accidents in a Pediatric Population in Hawaii, 1983-2003
Smerz. 2004 UHMS Abstract
RRR ID: 1543

DIVING WITH CHILDREN: REVIEW OF EXPERIENCE REPORTS AND OPINIONS - AMSTERDAM EXPERT MEETING 02 AND GENEVA ROUNDTABLE 03.
Wendling. 2004 UHMS Abstract
RRR ID: 1598

DIVING FATALITIES INVOLVING CHILDREN AND ADOLESCENTS: 1989-2002.
Caruso, Uguccioni, Ellis, Dovenbarger, and Bennett. 2004 UHMS Abstract
RRR ID: 1599

Children and Diving: Yours, Mine and Ours.
Taylor. 2004 UHMS Abstract
RRR ID: 1550

CHILDREN TREATED FOR DCI AND PULMONARY OXYGEN TOXICITY.
Ambriz, Abarca, and Torp. 2003 UHMS Abstract
RRR ID: 1352

Thanks for another great set of references Gene - Very interesting as usual.

Aloha, Tim

 

[zen_man]

I think some of it depend on the diving. Really shallow lagoon or pool diving and exposing kids to learning about diving and teaching OW Basics I think is great. But diving even to say, 20 feet, I have my reservations. I'm not even going to focus on physiological concerns as that stuff has been beaten to death, but I so look at the emotional maturity of a child. I know adults that can't deal with emergencies much less putting a kid in that position.

So, the scenarios I have looked at are these:

1. You dive one on one with your child. Not really an option to me as the child IS your dive buddy.

2. You dive 2 adults with the child. Now, if there is an emergency situation with one of the adults, there is one of two choices to make that I see. You help the troubled diver and then the child is left unattended in a possible panic situation. I personally don't like the idea of putting a 10 year old in that position. The second choice is to stay focused on the child and the troubled diver...well, then there's two people to watch a child and the adults are basically solo diving and on their own if something happens.

Is it possible for someone to multitask in this situation? Yeah, but in a true emergency situation, most likely not.

So, this leads me to thinking that in order to dive with a child safely, it would require a team of 3 adults. That way there is one to handle a situation and there will always be one to tend to the kid.

My view has nothing to do with an adults ability to handle a situation with the child, but putting a child into a possible panic situation that they do not have the capacity to handle. I think this is due to lack of life experience, and as DwayneJ said, not having "situational awareness". I think kids are incredibly intelligent. I have 2 of them and they blow me away with how mature and smart they are. But, they are still kids and when the **** hits the fan in a bad situation, they run for Mom or Dad or the nearest grown up. That is how most kids react.

Now, I know some of this sounds extreme and the odds are pretty slim. But isn't this what we, as divers, prepare for? Diving is unforgiving as we are doing something we weren't truly designed to do. Breathe underwater. Do I really want to take that type of risk with my 10 year old, or would it be better to just wait a few more years?

I'm just saying that 10 sounds young to me. There is a big difference between 10 and 13, 13 and 15, 15 and 18.

Anyway, I'll stop rambling and I hope this made some sense. These are some thoughts that I have had bouncing around in my head regarding this topic and I am glad that it is being discussed.

 

[MeiLing]

There is a big difference between 10 and 13, 13 and 15, 15 and 18.

Not necessarily! There are kids who are mature and responsible at age 10. I was. I babysat my 5 yr old brothers and other neighborhood kids at that age. On the other hand. I had a 15 year old stepbrother that the family couldn't trust to him alone at home by himself at that age! Just wasn't mature.

A great deal of it, I believe, is how you are raised. Maturity and responsibility doesn't come with chronological age. It comes about by being given small doses of responsibility and coaching kids thru them.

 

[zen_man]

Not necessarily! There are kids who are mature and responsible at age 10. I was. I babysat my 5 yr old brothers and other neighborhood kids at that age. On the other hand. I had a 15 year old stepbrother that the family couldn't trust to him alone at home by himself at that age! Just wasn't mature.

A great deal of it, I believe, is how you are raised. Maturity and responsibility doesn't come with chronological age. It comes about by being given small doses of responsibility and coaching kids thru them.

I totally agree with you MeiLing. I have met adults that were more immature than a lot of kids. I grew up really fast and was responsible at an early age as my Son is as well. But you have to admit that as a whole, there is a difference in a 10 year old's thought process compared to, say 14 or 15 year old.

My main point being, most adults don't know how they will react in a crisis situation until they are in one much less a 10 year old. Someone may respond differently at different times to that same situation. Especially when it's their Mother or Father. It just seems, in general, to be quite a young age to me. That's all. I know my scenario is 1 in a 1,000,000, but it's plausible. I have no doubts about a kid's ability to absorb the skills and material of an OW cert. They're little sponges and are probably much easier to teach than most adults. I just have concerns regarding worse case scenarios and how responsible(me as a parent) it is to take that type of risk with them at that age. That's all.

EDIT: I've been thinking about this more and realize my thoughts were a little far out there. I was looking at it under the context of something happening to the adult that they are powerless over, like having a seizure, losing consciousness or having a heart attack. Something that the adult or skilled diver does not have control over. Looking closer at it this way, though possible, the odds are probably pretty staggering that something like this would happen.

 

[cgvmer]

As a parent of 2 already certified teens, and my daughter (10) going into a week long scuba camp this summer. I am relatively new at diving, but have spent most of my life around and in water. When my sons were certified around the same time as me, I realized I did not have the ability to manage all problems while diving and made a conscious effort to ensure we dove extremely conservatively. Now with just around 100 dives, my 15 yr old son and I completed AOW and Rescue(my other son was away at college so couldn't attend with us). I feel more confident diving and in my ability to manage issues underwater. When my daughter becomes certified, I will return to the shallower, more conservative diving (which I find very satisfying anyway). I will continue to train myself, and push my sons to train so ensure their own safety.

As for my decision to allow a 10 yr old to dive, well I know she has the physical stamina, she has been a competitive swimmer since age 6, and I have specifically chosen a week long class where the training is geared toward children.

Will I worry when she dives with me..........ABSOLUTELY ( still worry when I dive with my 15 and 19 yr old sons). Both of which can out swim me (19 yr old is in College on a swimming scholarship) both are RedCross lifegaurds, but none of that matters because they are still my kids and I am always nervous ...... forget about when my 19 yr old takes flying lessons this Septembe

Oh and those Rubicon articles were excellent.

 

[garyfotodiver]

I believe it is more the parental maturity than the child maturity at the core here. We parents have hard decisions to make all during our children's lives. For example, most (I hope all) of us do not let our children learn that fire is hot by letting them stick a limb into a fire.

As far as the decision to let my children dive, they must be 12 and show an appropriate amount of maturity. This is my decision, and my wife, who is neither a diver nor a swimmer, supports it. I have had P**I instructors tell me that since the minimum age established by the agency is 10, then that is all I need to know.

This is B*** S*** and anyone who doesn't understand that a parent's decision is of primary importance is, in my opinion, immature, irresponsible, and shouldn't be allowed in a filled bathtub.

 

[MeiLing]

I have had P**I instructors tell me that since the minimum age established by the agency is 10, then that is all I need to know.

What? Do they plan to certify 10 yr. olds without parental consent? That's a lawsuit waiting to happen!

I wouldn't let someone like that near any of the adults I knew and liked either, let alone kids!