PADI Junior Open Water Diver

[tddfleming]

In general, PADI recommends maximum depths after certification be the same as the maximums during training, so for your specific question, 60 feet.

To expand, I first double checked by searching on words like "depth" in the Instructor Manual.

For 10-11 year olds, the maximum depth is 40 feet, both in training, and after certification.

For 12-14 year olds in training, the maximum depth during the Open Water course is 60 feet.
This increases to 70 feet during the AOW course.

For age 15 and above the maximum depth during OW training is 60 feet.
During AOW training it is 100 feet.
And during Deep Diver Specialty training,130 feet.
Only those age 15 or older can take the Deep Diver specialty.

After certification, recommended maximum depths are 60 feet for novices, 100 feet for AOW, and 130 feet with the Deep specialty.
I did not find a specific recommendation for 12-14 year olds with Junior AOW, but suggest that the training maximum of 70 feet would be appropriate.

My daugther is 13 and Jr AOW, we were told 70' max after training. But I agree, finding the info via PADI is difficult at best.

 

[TMHeimer]

Perhaps not.

But.

I have heard several instructors claim that jOW's can only go to 12 metres. Clearly they haven't read the manual and are quoting directly from hearsay. Could you trust an instructor who doesn't bother to read the manual?

Agree. They could simply say they haven't taught youngsters last few years and weren't sure.

 

[Crowley]

On this very rare occasion I'm going to have to disagree with you Crowley.

There are a lot of standards, yes, hence why we have the manual and all instructors (and future DM's) are required to have it. There is no excuse for not knowing a standard.
And we should all make the effort to refresh our memories on a regular basis. I always run through core courses when a new manual comes out so as to check that nothing mega has happened e.g removing the fin pivot.

Although it does amaze me how people can fail the standards exams in the I.E It's open book ferrchrissakes!!!!!!!

No worries mate, it would be a dull life if we all agreed and if we did, Scubaboard would probably have gone offline about a week after it started!

We could test each other on standards knowledge and I bet we could all dig out a few surprises here and there as in the "ooh I didn't know that" etc. but I think it's okay to not remember everything, although I would take issue with somebody not reviewing standards prior to teaching an unfamiliar course.

Part of the reason I sympathise with the OP is that I wasn't certain of the depth standard for juniors when it came to teach my first junior diver - which was actually a few years into my career. I had to review them prior to teaching, along with all the junior diving paperwork, and yes, I found myself thinking : "I'm sure I was told it was 12m for all juniors..."

I don't think this means you can't trust an instructor who cannot immediately come up with a standard with which they are not familiar. I doubt there are many instructors who could recite, verbatim, every standard in their agency handbook.

I generally don't teach kids, it's as rare for me as teaching DPV spec., of which I have taught two in 6 years, and nope, sorry, I can't remember all of the DPV spec. standards.

What I DO know, on the other hand, are all the standard safety standards, and therefore what I need to review is the standards specific to that course. Just like a junior diver - the depth restriction I know, but I can't repeat every standard pertaining to juniors off the top of my head and would have to refer to the manual - and I doubt anybody could give me the entire DPV outline without having to look it up a bit.

In terms of the depth restrictions, if an instructor mis-interprets "junior" as "limited to 12m" then yes, this is incorrect, but if something goes wrong underwater is a lawyer really going to say in court: "you are a bad instructor. you violated standards. you restricted a junior diver to a depth lesser than to which their certification entitled them to dive. that is why the accident happened. you are bad."? If that's an honest mistake, so be it.

I think that, overall - in terms of the amount of other standards that we have to abide by when teaching diving in general - not knowing this particular standard is forgiveable, on the assumption that all other standards were adhered to, and that "not knowing" a standard does not imply that the error was not subsequently discovered whilst the instructor was reviewing course standards prior to teaching something a bit different.

Would somebody please pass the popcorn?

Safe diving all - but please, not too shallow, okay!?

C.

 

[Ste Wart]

No worries mate, it would be a dull life if we all agreed and if we did, Scubaboard would probably have gone offline about a week after it started!

Brilliant

We could test each other on standards knowledge and I bet we could all dig out a few surprises here and there as in the "ooh I didn't know that" etc. but I think it's okay to not remember everything, although I would take issue with somebody not reviewing standards prior to teaching an unfamiliar course.

Now that is intriguing. I wonder could we set that up SB? A timed test or maybe an honesty test of a few random standards. I mean who would cheat on a forum test just to look clever
I think that could be a good idea for a new thread.

I generally don't teach kids, it's as rare for me as teaching DPV spec., of which I have taught two in 6 years, and nope, sorry, I can't remember all of the DPV spec. standards.

Yup, Night Dive Instructor! I managed to avoid the only customer who ever wanted to do this course and pass it onto a colleague.

But Crow, we're talking about Open Water here. Really we should know the standards for this course inside out as it is the one we (well you; I'm having a year out of the industry) teach the most.

I mean taking one off the top of my head (and I'm not cheating) if there are 2 under 12's on an OW course, the maximum in-water ratio is reduced to 4. I couldn't tell you any changes on the Jnr Rescue diver course, but OW, we all should be up to scratch on this surely?

 

[knotical]

I mean taking one off the top of my head (and I'm not cheating) if there are 2 under 12's on an OW course, the maximum in-water ratio is reduced to 4. I couldn't tell you any changes on the Jnr Rescue diver course, but OW, we all should be up to scratch on this surely?

Actually, it only requires one under-12 student to reduce the ratio in Open Water (or confined Open Water) to 4:1. Two kids is the max allowed in the group of 4. And yes, I looked it up to be sure (pg 20, GS&P). And yes, it takes a careful reading to be certain what they mean. Kind of reminded me of some of the old test questions that were more like English tests than scuba tests.

k

 

[knotical]

I do not have an '11 PADI IM available at home, only at the dive shop, so I can not look to see if Standards have changed since Knotical's post.

I've compared the '11 manual with the '10 manual and see no changes relevant to the issue.

 

[Ste Wart]

Actually, it only requires one under-12 student to reduce the ratio in Open Water (or confined Open Water) to 4:1. Two kids is the max allowed in the group of 4. And yes, I looked it up to be sure (pg 20, GS&P). And yes, it takes a careful reading to be certain what they mean. Kind of reminded me of some of the old test questions that were more like English tests than scuba tests.

k

You're right

If children age 10-11 participate in confi ned open water
instead of a pool: 4:1 with no more than two children in
the group. This ratio can not increase by adding certifi ed
assistants.

Pretty vague. it should read if a child aged between 10-11 participates in Confined Open water...

wait.... the're not even taking about a pool.

I'm going to re-read the whole bloody manual tonight.!!!

 

[BrianKon]

I believe there are some folks who feel relieved with this thread, perhaps getting a few to dig through their manual or get an updated version to get clarification on the standards is beneficial as well as those who gained the knowledge just by reading through this.

Many dive shops set their own policy, this is not to be confused with standards.

If a dive shop says it's policy for a 12-14 year old is 50 feet max for training or otherwise, then there you have it. While a customer might get upset at least they got an answer that they can't argue. But saying a standard doesn't allow this or that when it can be proven otherwise can put yourself or a shop in poor light within the customers mind.

B-

 

[DMFOhio]

My son was certified last summer at age 13. His Junior PADI Scuba Diver card clearly states on the front, "Qualified to dive with a PADI Professional to 12m/40." Happy to send you a copy of it as proof because you were right!

 

[go get wet]

So my 14 year old & dive party where put on a snorkel boat this weekend. 20 foot was the deepest they would let him dive even with his log book check out dives at 45/48/37/44 feet. His card shows 10-11 40foot. Then on another line it shows 12-14 with no foot markings. Long story short. This dive shop did whatever they wanted & it would be nice if it was clearly marked on card & books. Then there wouldn't b a question about this.. to Be able to show the office management of this company the standards. She said it was padi standards that my 14 year old could only go to 40 feet. & his instructor. Said 60 feet. & now i'm. Not sure what his max depth should be. Where can I find This information? I feel they put us on this boat for her convenience. & lied to me. We still had a great time, but can't stop thinking about this.