Back Inflate vs BPW

[Tracy]

I tried doing a little bit of research on Sea Snakes and Diving:

Mistaken identity may explain why male sea snakes (Aipysurus laevis, Elapidae, Hydrophiinae) “attack†scuba divers - Scientific Reports

Scuba-divers on tropical coral-reefs often report unprovoked “attacks” by highly venomous Olive sea snakes (Aipysurus laevis). Snakes swim directly towards divers, sometimes wrapping coils around the diver’s limbs and biting. Based on a focal animal observation study of free-ranging Olive sea...

www.nature.com

Based on the distance of the "bite marks" (assuming that's what caused the holes), that must have been a larger snake.

It wasn't really a snake. It is a pinch flat. The wing was probably folded and got pinched between the tank and a bench or something. It happens, commonly depending on your wing and tank size. If you run a large wing with small tanks, it hangs over the bottom and edges allowing a large fold.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

My Scubapro X Black keeps my chest area free just the small strap across. Unfortunately when people take photos of me side on my shape looks far worse lol When were were diving in Lombok Indonesia at all the local eateries they were telling me I must be rich as fat people are rich lol

I should have said the "entire front of my body" instead of "chest".

I still don't know what caused this, but I had some puncture in one of my wings over the past week.

Just because I don't expect it, it doesn't mean it isn't possible. I could always have a spearfisher with poor vision mistake me for a large fish. My backplate will survive, but my wing will not.

Or as people have suggested, attacked by a snake. Fortunately no snaked in the Puget Sound. Spearfishers with bad vision, possibly.

 

[NW Dive Dawg]

Why are you posting this in the Technical Diving forum?

I felt that most folks that participate in the Tech Forum currently use a BPW set-up and prior to that at one time may have used a back mount BC........so I thought I could get some educated and quality answers.

In reading all of this so far it seems that the primary reasons for choosing the BPW's are: modularity, adjustability, overall expense and self repair. All good reasons.

My primary point was about whether or not the overall diving characteristics with everything, including weighting, all dialed in is really that much different. I will also say that one of the things that I like most about both of my Zeagles is the double tank straps... Everything feels stable and secure..

I also have another back mount cold water BC (Seaquest Black Diamond) that I don't use much anymore so I think I may sell it and then explore a BPW........just because I'm really curious as to why so many folks prefer them.

Thanks again for the input...

 

[MichaelMc]

In use on the dive boat:
- Very sturdy. Low risk of dive disrupting damage.
- Personalized options of where to attach gear.

In the water, compared to a hypothetical perfectly dialed in non-BP/W back inflate:
- Very stable in terms of tank not rocking side to side on the back.
- Less bulk and drag
- Likely no big difference for weight distribution, compared to a perfectly dialed in BC for that person. Though I find the BP/W offers better options for achieving that weight distribution.

 

[Seaweed Doc]

I felt that most folks that participate in the Tech Forum currently use a BPW set-up and prior to that at one time may have used a back mount BC........so I thought I could get some educated and quality answers.

In reading all of this so far it seems that the primary reasons for choosing the BPW's are: modularity, adjustability, overall expense and self repair. All good reasons.

My primary point was about whether or not the overall diving characteristics with everything, including weighting, all dialed in is really that much different. I will also say that one of the things that I like most about both of my Zeagles is the double tank straps... Everything feels stable and secure..

I also have another back mount cold water BC (Seaquest Black Diamond) that I don't use much anymore so I think I may sell it and then explore a BPW........just because I'm really curious as to why so many folks prefer them.

Thanks again for the input...

For what it's worth, I dove a Zeagle Ranger for 20 years or so, then switched to backplate/wing. Reasons for the switch:

1. I really hate the Zeagle weight system. I'd rather have the ScubaPro weight pockets. (Won't get into why that is; it's personal preference really.)

2. I have a "cheaters" or "old guy" harness. I've got some shoulder issues that benefit from a chest strap pulling the two shoulder straps in a bit. And I like the padding my harness has. (In that respect, it's not a "typical" BP/W.)

3. I've bolted an 8 pound lead bar to my backplate. With a drysuit up here, I carry 23 pounds total, so only need 10 pounds in weight pockets. That eliminated the weightbelt completely. I suppose I could have gotten there with weights strapped to my tank in the Ranger, but I never made that happen.

4. The Ranger was wearing out. When something goes south on an old BCD, it's usually not worth repairing. With BP/W, just swap out the defective part.

5. For diving doubles, despite Zeagle's claims, I really think you need more than the Ranger can provide.

6. With my BP/W I can put together parts from multiple manufacturers. So I've got a Hollis wing, Scubapro weight system, and third party accoutrements.

RIght now, I still use a light travel BCD because I had it pre BP/W. I'm not going to spend $$$ for an aluminum plate and separate harness (too lazy to re-rig every time) until that gives out.

All that said, unless you're planning on diving back-mounted doubles, I don't see a good reason for you to switch. You've got a solid BCD.

But when the time comes to replace, you might want to look at BP/W>

 

[PfcAJ]

I’m just wondering why there is all the hullabaloo over the difference and even animosity between a quality tech style back inflate BC as compared to a modular BP/W.

I currently have two BC’s. A Zeagle Ranger for diving the PAC NW drysuit diving and a Zeagle Stiletto for diving tropics in a 3mm or even just a rashguard. Both have a multitude of adjustment and now that I have them dialed they are 100% good to go without ANY further adjustments or configurations. Just pack and go. No further adjustments needed.

I get that the price of a BP/W is going to be less than two top tier BC’s……. but my focus on this post is really about which is better when in actual use.

My two BC’s in my opinion seem to offer anything and everything that the BP/W’s do…… only more. The harness is totally comfortable and offers a lot of options such as integrated pockets, D-Rings, attachment points, etc. Plus, both of my BC’s offer rear trim pockets of non ditchable weight that will hold more weight than an aluminum or SS backplate will provide. Plus, I don’t need to haul that weight when traveling because weights at desinations are provided and I can simply insert them into my rear trim pockets

For those that do not want or feel the need for ditchable weight with their “ripcdord” system, then the Zeagles ample weight “pockets” can then be used for many other storage options such as DSMB’s, SMB’s, Signal Mirror, Spare mask, finstrap, maskstrap, o-rings, car fob..etc.

So bottom line……………….why do some folks feel that a BP/W so much superior to a quality tech back inflate BC such as the Ranger or Stiletto?

Thanks….. and Cheers!!!
.

Problems with the Ranger:

More d rings than are needed. The ones that are there, aren’t in the right place.

Overly long inflator hose. Pull dump on the inflator elbow.

Plastic. Buckles. Load bearing plastic buckles suck. Missing a dive because your plastic buckle cracked REALLY sucks.

Chest strap almost certainly interferes with a drysuit inflator.

Ripcord is an accident waiting to happen. If you decide not to use it, now you’re taking more bulk with you for nothing.

That same worthless bulk precludes you from using a can light and also is in the way of the proper location for the left hip d ring.

No crotch strap.

Zipper pockets trap your contents if there’s a rogue thread.

Unneeded lower right dump valve.

A steel plate distributes needed weight over your lungs. Ranger doesn’t have that.

0/10 would not dive.

 

[NW Dive Dawg]

For what it's worth, I dove a Zeagle Ranger for 20 years or so, then switched to backplate/wing. Reasons for the switch:

1. I really hate the Zeagle weight system. I'd rather have the ScubaPro weight pockets. (Won't get into why that is; it's personal preference really.)

I agree that the ripcord system is either a love or hate relationship with a lot of folks. But the good news for cold water drysuit diving is that if you use the rear trim weight pockets on a Ranger you can put 16 lbs back there, then 10 on a belt. This then leaves you with the option of using the forward / zipperred weight pockets for storage like SMB, DSMB with Spool, signal mirror, Lifeline, Dryfob, spare mask, spare mask strap and finstrap, etc... It also leaves you with at least some weight on your body in case of a need to doff your system at depth.

2. I have a "cheaters" or "old guy" harness. I've got some shoulder issues that benefit from a chest strap pulling the two shoulder straps in a bit. And I like the padding my harness has. (In that respect, it's not a "typical" BP/W.)

That's how I feel about my Ranger and Stiletto. They both have chest straps that accomplishes exactly what you are saying and they are also adjustable up or down.

3. I've bolted an 8 pound lead bar to my backplate. With a drysuit up here, I carry 23 pounds total, so only need 10 pounds in weight pockets. That eliminated the weightbelt completely. I suppose I could have gotten there with weights strapped to my tank in the Ranger, but I never made that happen.

I can accomplish the exact same thing with both BC's by simply adding weights to the rear trim pockets. Up to 16lbs on the Ranger

4. The Ranger was wearing out. When something goes south on an old BCD, it's usually not worth repairing. With BP/W, just swap out the defective part.

That's a good point and a positive for the BP/W.

5. For diving doubles, despite Zeagle's claims, I really think you need more than the Ranger can provide.

Not sure why you would say that. The Ranger is specified for doubles and the adaptation procedure is simple and straightforward.

6. With my BP/W I can put together parts from multiple manufacturers. So I've got a Hollis wing, Scubapro weight system, and third party accoutrements.

RIght now, I still use a light travel BCD because I had it pre BP/W. I'm not going to spend $$$ for an aluminum plate and separate harness (too lazy to re-rig every time) until that gives out.

One of my primary points. My Stiletto is all set for travel. Just pack and go. Plus no need to pack and travel with any weights or plates as they are always provided at my destination.

All that said, unless you're planning on diving back-mounted doubles, I don't see a good reason for you to switch. You've got a solid BCD.

But when the time comes to replace, you might want to look at BP/W>

Totally agree....... but as mentioned......I do have another back mount BC (Aqualung Black Diamond) that I never use anymore so am thinking about selling that and putting together a BP/W to see if the difference is all that many folks seem to think it is.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

Ranger is specified for doubles and the adaptation procedure is simple and straightforward.

Have you or anyone ever seen someone doing tech dives with a Zeagle Ranger?

 

[NW Dive Dawg]

Problems with the Ranger:

I'm sure that what some may consider problems are considered benefits or attributes by others

More d rings than are needed. The ones that are there, aren’t in the right place.

Just a matter of personal preference. I actually like the amount and locations of the D-Rings

Overly long inflator hose. Pull dump on the inflator elbow.

I've used inflator hoses with pull dump on the elbow for MANY years with no issues. Might be because I rarely if ever use it. When dumping I typically hold my inflator mechanism up to insure that I am not leaving air in the hose. I also prefer a longer inflator hose.

Plastic. Buckles. Load bearing plastic buckles suck. Missing a dive because your plastic buckle cracked REALLY sucks.

There's a tradeoff between metal and composites. Composite buckles these days are extremely durable and reliable and I have never missed a dive because of plastic buckle cracking

Chest strap almost certainly interferes with a drysuit inflator.

The chest strap on my Ranger is vertically adjustable so once you know where your your inflator is than you can adjust accordingly and then it most definitely does NOT interfere. If you configure the chest strap on your BP/W harness directly over your inflator you'd have the exact same problem that you are stating.

Ripcord is an accident waiting to happen. If you decide not to use it, now you’re taking more bulk with you for nothing.

Liking or hating the ripcord system is a personal preference. I personally have never used it on either my Ranger or Stiletto. If I felt the need to ditch weights then I would simply unzip the weight pockets and pull the pouches. I actually prefer this because it gives me the option of ditching only half of the weight in the integrated pockets. When diving from my boat I will typically pull the pouches and set them on the offshore bracket, then remove my entire rig and secure to my line puller via a custom strap around my tank valve. Then once back onboard I use my power davit to hoist my rig up and over the gunnel.

That same worthless bulk precludes you from using a can light and also is in the way of the proper location for the left hip d ring.

I don't use a can light but can see nothing on either of my BC's that would prevent me from doing so. Also, both my left and right hip D-rings are free and clear to use however I want. I typically use my hip d-rings for an SMB and a DSMB when tropical........ and in the PNW I use one for my stringer and the other for a DSMB.

No crotch strap.

Super easy to add but I never felt the need. Question..... do BP/W crotch straps have a composite buckle / connector?

Zipper pockets trap your contents if there’s a rogue thread.

Yep.... Unlikely......but we all know that Murphy does come along with us on every dive.

Unneeded lower right dump valve.

Pretty much agreed and I rarely if ever use that valve.... Easy enough to just cap it off if it really bothers you.

A steel plate distributes needed weight over your lungs. Ranger doesn’t have that.

I think that's subjective. My Ranger gives me the option of placing my total of 16lbs max of trim weight pockets near the top of my tank, near the bottom or anywhere in between. Basically same thing as a backplate.

0/10 would not dive.

I have no idea what that means.........

Cheers!

 

[Wants2divemore]

I will also say that one of the things that I like most about both of my Zeagles is the double tank straps... Everything feels stable and secure..

I have double tank straps on my BP mounted STA - keeps my single tank just as secure as my old Hydros Pro with two straps. I used to dive a Hydros Pro but switched to BPW. I didn't have a lot of dives on it, but found that right away my trim was better with BPW (despite different combinations of weight amounts and locations between the Hydros Pro integrated weight pockets and tank band pockets).