A somewhat sad conversation last night

[mathauck0814]

Our little group of GUE divers has a standing set of dives on Wednesday night. A bunch of us get together, and anybody who wants to join us is invited to do so. We get a fair number of newer divers, who enjoy the opportunity to go out with some experienced and solid folks. One of our recent companions is a young man who moved to Seattle rather recently. He is, as we all understand and empathize with, dive-mad, and has been getting out about every other day to dive somewhere, with someone.

He went to dinner with us last night. And he told me, over dinner, that before he moved to Seattle, he'd had a very negative impression of DIR divers -- which he said he had largely gotten off SCUBABOARD. He also said that, of all the people he's dived with since he's moved up here, our group is the nicest one . . . and the MOST FUN to dive with.

I thought it was incredibly sad that he had gotten such a bad impression of DIR people from this board. And I wanted to offer his impression, now that he's MET us, so that other newer divers who have gotten the same impression might know that at least one person has concluded he was wrong.

My experience with "DIR" divers (though honestly, it's just with GUE divers as the UTD folks I know out here are very friendly) locally has been overwhelmingly negative. While I can't say that I've interacted with a large number of GUE divers in southern California, those that I have had the "fortune" of speaking with were terribly exclusive. I don't mean to use exclusive to be synonymous with "elite", but rather the, "how dare I be forced to share my ocean with the likes of you". The attitude is wretched. I'm always open to having my mind changed, but first impressions and all...

 

[Mitchell Teeters]

Originally Posted by Doomnova
My first experience with a GUE person was during my first dive after open water and I can say I will never dive with her again. It was a dive run by one of the local shops on the weekend aimed at doing local dives within the limits of newer divers. When she looked at the sign up chart noted that I had just done my OW and pulled me aside and said "Ok you can come and dive with us just don't get me killed or ruin my dive". Simply put she was lucky I was in a good sense of humor. Funny thing is she as the DM for that Saturday dive should have expected newer divers.


This can come from a non-DIR/GUE/UTD diver as well if not more often. It is all about the particular diver, his/her personality, and nothing about diving organization

While this may be true, there seem to me to be MORE DIR/GUE/UTD people with this attitude. Maybe this style of diving suits that personality we find distasteful? I know that these ambassadors have turned me of to even thinking about getting into this style of diving.

---------- Post added April 13th, 2012 at 02:30 PM ----------

In all honesty I have more of a beef with the DIR people.

 

[vcblklion]

At least here on SB you can read the opinions of GUE/UTD/DIR/... divers. The local community is quite closed and inaccessible. AFAIK they use a closed mailing list. You need to apply for membership by writing a small essay and commit to taking Fundies within one year. If you don't finish the course successfully you are expelled from the list. It is not exactly welcoming and makes it really hard to find a DIR-minded buddy to see for yourself if it is an approach that would work for you.

That's funny....I looked up the membership to GUE here GUE Membership Levels | Global Underwater Explorers and do not see the requirements you mention anywhere.

 

[Ben Prusinski]

I have had positive and friendly experience with GUE and DIR divers. One group presented recently at a local dive shop and very open to new divers to learn the basics of GUE and DIR and intro to tech diving. For me, thats nice to know. Cave diving is an interest of mine but requires more advanced skills after the basics. GUE and DIR have good training from what I've read in these areas.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

In one aspect it IS the best way though and that is the fact that both/all divers in a group goes in with the same gear configuration.

Wether or not the same thing can be accomplished with jacket BCDs, split fins, total silt-out trim and whatnot is another path of discussion, but having all the divers on the dive in the same configuration does make it easier to assist eachother if there is an incident as whoever has the issue has the same base configuration as you do yourself.

There is no "best" ... there's a "best for me". Everyone's different. We all have different needs, desires, goals, and comfort levels. We all have different learning abilities, different limitations, and different ideas about what's important.

DIR appeals to a lot of different types of people and for a lot of reasons. It's tough to pigeonhole a group of people who represent a broad range of personalities, skill levels, and attitudes.

It's also not a good idea to look at someone in a backplate, long hose, and blade fins and assume they're DIR ... all of those things existed for years before DIR came along, and the majority of people who use that equipment are, in fact, not DIR.

We need to quit trying to categorize each other ... it's diving ... a recreational activity. Most folks have valid reasons for choosing the style, equipment, and mentality about diving that they do. It serves their needs.

Dive how ya like ... with whom you like ... in equipment you like. If someone else doesn't like it, don't let it ruin your day ... if someone doesn't want to dive with you, you're better off without them anyway. As Ricky Nelson so aptly put it ... "you can't please everyone, so ya got to please yourself".

We need to relax and go diving ... like these guys ... they don't give much of a crap about "best" ... they're just having fun ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Kingpatzer]

I've had very negative impressions of specific DIR people from both the board and a few I've met in person who've identified themselves as such.

I've also had very positive impressions of particular people, many of whom happen to be DIR/GUE/whatever trained divers and like diving in that fashion.

The problem is one of how a group is viewed compared to how specific individuals are viewed.

The DIR folks of old worked hard to earn a reputation that dogs them, while darn few people who are active DIR divers deserve the reputation, there are enough people, minority though they are, who ensure the stereotype continues.

And, as has been pointed out to me a few times, quite a few of those who are propagating the bad side of DIR tend to be folks who just finished a fundie course and who are a little high on the kool aide.

As for me, I hope to dive with some DIR folks from this board some day. I know there's more than a few people who are on my "get in touch with" list if I ever find myself in their vicinity with time to dive.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

The DIR folks of old worked hard to earn a reputation that dogs them, while darn few people who are active DIR divers deserve the reputation, there are enough people, minority though they are, who ensure the stereotype continues.

I disagree. Most of the folks who "worked hard to earn a reputation" aren't even diving anymore. Why blame those who are ... who have never done a thing to earn that reputation ... for the perceived sins of those who came before them?

That's like somebody blaming you for slavery ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Lemna]

That's funny....I looked up the membership to GUE here GUE Membership Levels | Global Underwater Explorers and do not see the requirements you mention anywhere.

vcblklion, I am talking about the local community (dir-nl/frogkick.nl), not about GUE in general.

 

[vcblklion]

Anyway, I was at the time both keen as mustard about this new diving thing, and completely frustrated with the SSI classes i'd done. I felt I was passing classes without actually being taught how to be a better diver.

So for me, SB turned me ON to DIR diving. But i've only been here a little while.

I have to agree here. I'm a rescue diver under PADI and when a freind of mine started introducing me to the GUE philosophy (without being a jerk or zealot about it mind you....), my curiousity was piqued. I realized after he showed me just a little of the DIR philosophy that my PADI training didn't teach me ANYTHING about being a better diver...and that's why I went for Rescue training. After that I started doing research on my own and found much of my information about GUE/DIR here on scubaboard. I don't understand why some people would want to put down a system of diving because of a few egotistical people or because of an acronym such as DIR......If you take the time to see what all the hubub is about you will find a learning system that challenges you to be a better diver.....if you're not trying to improve your skills in a sport that can be life threating, why bother...?

 

[Kingpatzer]

I disagree. Most of the folks who "worked hard to earn a reputation" aren't even diving anymore. Why blame those who are ... who have never done a thing to earn that reputation ... for the perceived sins of those who came before them?

That's like somebody blaming you for slavery ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

What do you disagree with:
Do you disagree that the folks of old earned a particular reputation that is not flattering? I think that's easy enough to show with a usenet search.
Do you disagree that the folks currently diving are dogged by that reputation? I think TSandM's threed that we're currently participating is an example of that being the case.
Do you disagree that few folks today deserve that reputation? It seems to me that you're arguing that very point.

It seems to me that you have acknowledged each of those points in this very thread.

Now, if your point is that it is unfair, I don't disagree with that nor did I argue it was either fair or deserved. However, fairness has nothing to do with it. The world isn't fair. People hold negative opinions of groups based on limited interactions. A small number of vocal, visible folks can ruin the great reputation of a large number of people doing good things very easily. That's just the way human beings work.