Advice on TDI Advanced Nitrox and Deco Procedures training

[kr2y5]

Three OW dives are required. (...) I do five with my students plus a pool session if necessary.

See, you spend twice the amount of time compared to what's formally required... this reinforces my point that all the good instructors go beyond standards... maybe the way this training progression is designed is just not very realistic. If it were, responsible instructors would not have to compensate so much by going above and beyond.

There are at least two very clear standards violations in the Intro Class you took that should be reported to TDI. (...) When those who violate standards are not reported it endangers every one after that may take that class.

Everything you wrote above makes sense, and it is probably true that one does a disservice to other divers by walking away... honestly, though, it should not be my job to be policing the agency's instructors. I have enough problems on my own to engage in a time-consuming and emotionally exhausting process of figuring out how to escalate while remaining fair and just, not causing anyone harm beyond what they deserve, and still being able to feel good about myself the next day. Right or wrong, it is so much easier to just walk away... besides, despite them cutting corners, I still rather feel sympathy for all my instructors.

How is the student supposed to tell whether the instructor was following the agency's standards? They have a student workbook, not the instructor notes. Are they really in a position to report an instructor?

It is a good question. I think at the technical level the student ought to get a copy of the standards for the class, in advance. Intro to Tech is just 5 pages, no big deal.

Actually, after a few sub-optimal experiences I look at the instructor manual online (Google is your friend) before talking to a potential instructor about the course, and what he will teach. The comparison of what he tells me with the minimum standards tells me a lot about him or her.

Good strategy....but make sure you are seeing the latest/current version of standards. They are updated annually.

I have never seen any standards that would describe what the instructor will teach... the only standards I have seen were those that determined what skills the student will demonstrate. I suspect most divers are not aware that they have access to any such information, assuming it exists.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

They do. But they need to ask for them. It's why in my book one of things I say every student should do is ask to see the standards they must be trained to. From OW on up.

 

[Scott]

It is a good question. I think at the technical level the student ought to get a copy of the standards for the class, in advance. Intro to Tech is just 5 pages, no big deal.

Pretty simple with SDI TDI. Just go to their site and at the bottom of every course description is a .pdf download for Course Standards and Procedures

 

[KevinNM]

I have never seen any standards that would describe what the instructor will teach... the only standards I have seen were those that determined what skills the student will demonstrate. I suspect most divers are not aware that they have access to any such information, assuming it exists.

At least some publish more detail than that. See http://www.globalunderwaterexplorers.org/files/Standards_and_Procedures/GUE-Standards-v7.2.pdf.

Or https://www.tdisdi.com/wp-content/u...idual/TDI Diver Standards_12_Trimix_Diver.pdf

This are not the instructor manuals, they don't go over the topics for each dive, etc, but it shows what you need to get into the course, how long that class is expected to be and how many dives, what you should learn and what skills you need to demonstrate to pass.

 

[ajduplessis]

Same here. I'm still struggling. Why isn't it taught in the class?

Because the instructor cant perform the kicks themselves. Its rather difficult to teach something you cant do yourself.

---------- Post added February 23rd, 2015 at 07:42 AM ----------

The other issue is that some agencies allow some deviation (10%) from the standards and this is up to the instructor. An instructor I know signed off technical cave students that are unable to reach their valves, forget about an actual valve drill.

Blanket statement: In a continuously shrinking industry many instructors and shops will do ANYTHING to make a quick $$$.

 

[Redshift]

Pretty simple with SDI TDI. Just go to their site and at the bottom of every course description is a .pdf download for Course Standards and Procedures

Nice. For some years all the standards were gone!

 

[tomfcrist]

Because the instructor cant perform the kicks themselves. Its rather difficult to teach something you cant do yourself.

Very true. When I did my tech ITC, Tim O'leary was my CD. Literally before he wasted his time with me he put me in the pool and had me perform several skills. Demonstrating kicking techniques was one of them. He later told me that he does that because a good portion of divers show up for his ITC and have no idea what a backdown, modified frog, modified flutter or helicopter turn should look like...and he sends them packing. There is just no excuse for an instructor of that level not to be able to perform quite simple finning techniques.

Then he made me do a 1000m swim...

 

[Patoux01]

To get back about OP, I wouldn't do the course in 3 days, except if you really want that instructor...

Which area are you gonna do it? If you're not really linked to that instructor, it's worth looking around to see if there's not someone else.


That's what I'd do, simply because if there's one thing I hate in courses, it's being rushed. And I don't see myself doing 6 "big" dives in 3 days. To give you an idea of what it'd be to do it with the instructors I contacted (which is the reason I wouldn't do it in 3 days)

4 of the dives will have decompression and 2 of the dives will be to 45m utilising Air, 50% and 100% and have a 20-30 min bottom time with 30-40 minutes of decompression.

And another course running here in Sydney (although not ANDP, it goes through IANTD) is 8 dives to up to 50m or something in that range.
That being said, the price range isn't the same (1200$ for the first one, 1800$ for 2nd one).

Finally, these guys both expect you to be rock solid on trim, buoyancy and kicks. If you're not, you're in for another few dives (at least). Knowing all this, scheduling ANDP on 3 days would be a no go for me.

 

[waterpirate]

IMHO the 2=3 day certs are for people who are already squared away and looking for some fine tuning and a ticket punch. Be honest with yourself, it is a lot of information and new skills that must be mastered. Do you really feel you can meet that bar safely in 3 days?
YMMV
Eric

 

[tursiops]

And I don't see myself doing 6 "big" dives in 3 days. To give you an idea of what it'd be to do it with the instructors I contacted (which is the reason I wouldn't do it in 3 days)
"4 of the dives will have decompression and 2 of the dives will be to 45m utilising Air, 50% and 100% and have a 20-30 min bottom time with 30-40 minutes of decompression."

I'm sorry, that just does not sound right for AN/DP. 6 "big" dives is not part of AN/DP, and what you quote sounds more like Extended Range, which is where you get two deco gases.