Any Information About A Discover Scuba Death in Grand Turk?

Discussion in 'Accidents and Incidents' started by Laurie S., Apr 10, 2012.

  1. Laurie S.

    Laurie S. Assistant Instructor

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    The cruisecritic board is discussing the death of a 17-year-old in Grand Turk while on a Carnival ship discover scuba excursion. I haven't seen anything about this here. I'm especially curious because I think it's the same operator that Holland America uses and we had problems with them there last month.

    ---------- Post added April 11th, 2012 at 12:12 PM ----------

    I got this story confirmed. Oasis Divers has had its contract cancelled by Carnival, and, hopefully, Holland America.
     
  2. wtcreaux

    wtcreaux Nassau Grouper

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    the link at cruisecritic.com is Grand Turk SCUBA cancelled - Cruise Critic Message Boards

    ---------- Post added April 12th, 2012 at 01:25 PM ----------

    Also found this link DIVER RESCUED OFF GRAND TURK, Turks and Caicos Islands

    Following is from a pdf of same site (above);

    DIVER RESCUED OFF GRAND TURK, Turks and Caicos Islands
    A TEENAGER is fighting for his life following a diving accident in Grand Turk.
    The 17-year-old American tourist got into difficulties while learning to dive under the supervision
    of highly trained and experienced instructors.
    He was one of 16 people on the organised outing. The victim was pulled from the sea and
    received emergency first aid aboard a dive boat before being transported to the Cruise Centre
    where he was met by a medical team from InterHealth Canada.
    He was then rushed to the Cockburn Town Medical Centre before being airlifted to a hospital in
    the USA.
    The incident, which happened just before 3pm on Wednesday, is now being investigated by
    officers from the RTCI Police.
    ENDS
    1

    ---------- Post added April 12th, 2012 at 01:33 PM ----------

    There appears to be 2 incidents -

    GRAND TURK
    A TEENAGER is recovering in hospital following a diving accident in Grand Turk.
    The 17-year-old American tourist got into difficulties while learning to dive under the supervision
    of highly trained and experienced instructors. He was one of 16 people on the organised outing.
    The victim was pulled from the sea and received emergency first aid aboard a dive boat before
    being transported to the Cruise Centre where he was met by a
    medical team from InterHealth Canada. He was then rushed to the Cockburn Town Medical
    Centre before being airlifted to a hospital in the USA.
    The incident, which happened just before 3pm on Wednesday, is now being investigated by
    officers from the RTCI Police.

    AND


    POLICE have launched an investigation following the death of a tourist in Grand Turk,
    yesterday (Monday).
    A 62-year-old man got into difficulties while snorkelling off the island and was taken aboard a
    boat where dive instructors administered emergency treatment.
    He was brought back to shore and rushed to the Cockburn Town Medical Centre, where he was
    pronounced dead at 1.10pm.
    The victim is believed to have been a passenger on a visiting cruise ship.



    News : Royal Turks & Caicos Police Force

    then scroll down to "Easter weekend Crime and Incident report"
    2
     
  3. Laurie S.

    Laurie S. Assistant Instructor

    # of Dives: 200 - 499
    Location: Tucson, Arizona and San Carlos, Mexico
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    There is another thread on cruisecritic, which preceded this one. In that thread, it is stated that the 17-year-old passed away. The emergency medical treatment actually was provided by one of the cruiseship passengers who did CPR on him until medical personnel arrived.
     
  4. DandyDon

    DandyDon ScubaBoard Supporter ScubaBoard Supporter

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    16 Discover Scuba students?! Wow! My first few dives were Discover dives as a passenger on a small Windjammer, but I had my own DM or Inst as a buddy for each dive, even tho we did break some rules. I wonder how many students per Inst they allow?
     
    Tricia likes this.
  5. Laurie S.

    Laurie S. Assistant Instructor

    # of Dives: 200 - 499
    Location: Tucson, Arizona and San Carlos, Mexico
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    Yep, methinks that's why the tragedy happened.
     
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  6. nimoh

    nimoh Public Safety Diver

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    I don't have any details about the incident, but from the information in earlier posts, I don't think it is clear if all 16 were in the water at the same time. Years ago when I did my first discover scuba in Australia, there were probably about 20 or so discover scuba students on the boat, but went in 4 at a time.
     
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  7. Jim Lapenta

    Jim Lapenta Tech Diver

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    How many are allowed is irrelevant. I can take 4 by standards. But under 18 - two. This stuff of taking a group of cruise people in herds on these things is nothing but greed in action. Cruise lines have recommended vendors for everything in ports. They say is so they can guarantee quality, service, etc. truth is it is how much of a kickback they get. My first cruise land excursion in Cozumel would have cost double if we stayed on the main drag that Carnival suggested. Going off of that by just a couple blocks netted some great deals and very nice people.
     
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  8. ahava

    ahava Scuba Instructor

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    Why? Maybe there were 4 or 5 instructors. Dont think there is enough info to draw any conclusion.
     
  9. Laurie S.

    Laurie S. Assistant Instructor

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    I highly doubt that there were four or five instructors. I'm betting there weren't more than two. I dove with them in March and saw their operation. You couldn't pay me enough to ever dive with them again.
     
  10. DandyDon

    DandyDon ScubaBoard Supporter ScubaBoard Supporter

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    Your experiences may well be on track, but we just don't know about this day.

    Personally, I don't think having more than 2 DSD students per Inst is wise, altho I guess many agencies thinks so. I am glad I had a private Inst for all of my DSD dives.
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2012
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  11. Mcote

    Mcote Angel Fish

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    I can't find much factual info at all about this incident, but I did a discover dive with oasis in January on Grand Turk. They had three guys on the boat for 8 of us. The hour long knowledge portion on the boat and the 30 minute skill demonstration in shallow water were handled in a professional manner, at least I thought they were. That dive is what has put me on the path to OW certification. God Bless that kid and his family.
     
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  12. BUGBAGGER

    BUGBAGGER Nassau Grouper

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    With respect, I don't think it is relevant to name a specific training agency when the same standard is used by more than half a dozen agencies that I know of and I am sure that there are more.

    It's important to note that even when there is a standard for the maximum number of participants, a prudent instructor will use good judgement and assessment skills regarding all of the following to determine what would be a "safe" number of participants to supervise. The instructor must asses their own experience and skills in the specific genre, the participants overall preparedness physically, mentally, emotionally, and cognitively, the dive site's potential hazards, the prevailing weather and water conditions, the potential for distraction with a mixed or large group if applicable with several leaders, etc.

    Exercising good judgement and specific examples of the factors that should be considered were emphasized in all of my professional training courses through four different SCUBA training agencies.

    There are factors that would make me reduce the ratio to 2:1 or even 1:1 but there are also particpants and places where I have conducted intro courses where the challenges or the participants abilities made the activity less risky than some "deep end of the pool" classes that I have observed.
     
  13. DandyDon

    DandyDon ScubaBoard Supporter ScubaBoard Supporter

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    Ok, Bigb - I know that several agencies meet and agree on standards. I changed my post.
     
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  14. Laurie S.

    Laurie S. Assistant Instructor

    # of Dives: 200 - 499
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    Are you saying there were three instructors on board? There were three staff on board on our trip, also, but one was a deckhand, and two were DMs.
     
  15. Mcote

    Mcote Angel Fish

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    One guy stayed on the boat, he was designated "The Rescue Diver". Being dive-ignorant then (and now), not sure what actual function he performed beyond driving the boat. The DM did say the boat driver was just as competent as the other two. Without knowing any better, the 8 HAL cruisers accepted the 4:1 diver to DM ratio without question.

    Just having completed the E-Learning for OW, I have to say the DM who performed the knowledge portion and led the dive seemed to cover the basics and stress the potential dangers pretty well. That doesn't mean this was the same crew or that everyone listened to the briefing on this boat.

    I will say, I felt safe during the dive.

    Marc
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2012
  16. openmindOW

    openmindOW Scuba Instructor

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    I do want to know the agency. The odds are that it is my agency: PADI.

    PADI keeps these incidents quiet. Yes, I've attended the PADI Risk Management lectures. They were fine, but I want to know more about how such tragic incidents happen. That's how we can hopefully prevent them from occuring again.

    There is no good reason for a young person to lose his life on a DSD. It is tragic beyond words.
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2012
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  17. nimoh

    nimoh Public Safety Diver

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    In the context of his post, his point was that there is no need to drag an agencies name through the mud when most other agencies have the same standard. If there was something specific in the standards unique to the agency that led to the incident, and would have been prevented under a different agency's standards then perhaps it is warranted.
     
  18. Laurie S.

    Laurie S. Assistant Instructor

    # of Dives: 200 - 499
    Location: Tucson, Arizona and San Carlos, Mexico
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    The cousin of the 17-year-old has now posted on cruisecritic. He has confirmed that he died and I have asked for details. I'll post if they're provided.
     
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  19. RonFrank

    RonFrank Orca

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    Hmm, seems like all that is known is someone age 17 had a problem, was flown to the US, and may or may not be dead. That's not very good investigative reporting.

    This is just Dirty Laundry as I see nothing here worth discussing. And now we apparently may get the news from some other Board where someones cousin posts? Really? Sigh....
     
  20. Laurie S.

    Laurie S. Assistant Instructor

    # of Dives: 200 - 499
    Location: Tucson, Arizona and San Carlos, Mexico
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    Sorry, you have that attitude, but I'm a regular on that board and there is a scuba forum there and a lot of divers. The accident occurred during a discover scuba excursion, the 17-year-old died, and Oasis Divers has had their contracts cancelled by both Carnival and Holland America. Not speculation, but rather, facts.

    And, for the record, the cousin posted there to learn information about what happened. He lives in Dubai and the family has returned to the U.S. and is in seclusion while they try to deal with the loss of their son.

    ---------- Post added April 13th, 2012 at 06:40 PM ----------

    Here's the latest update from (oh, forgive me!), the cruisecritic forum:
    "I had two friends on this excursion. There were 16 people plus 3 instructors. 1 instructor stayed on board the ship. The father of the boy was unable to get his bearings under the water so he ended up not diving."

    Sixteen discover scuba students and two instructors in the water? OMG.
     

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