Average Depth Diving?

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Pug,

First, I didn't call you anything. Well, I did call you God, but that was well over a year ago and I apologized at the time. Second, I'm not "the old lady sitting on the bench." I do understand what you do. Continue as you like, I'll defend your right to determine your own actions (as long as they don't hurt or restrict the freedom of others), but it's not a safe way to dive.
 
Walter:
1) I didn't call you anything.
2) I'm not "the old lady sitting on the bench."
3) it's not a safe way to dive.
1) OK. You called my *methods* crazy. I stand corrected.
2) Of course your not the old lady... your post just reminded me of what she said.
3) OK. I don't recommend it.

Now, I probably need to apologize to all the *old* ladies out there (especially since it seems that they are all getting younger.) That was some time ago and the *old* lady was probably younger then than I am now... in fact... I'm certain that is the case.
 
Uncle Pug:
And so I also agree with the premise that most divers are better off just sticking with dive computers.

Rather late in this thread, but in the interest of historical accuracy, it should be pointed out that this was not posted by Uncle Pug. This is an imposter, moderator please correct. The real and venerable UP would never utter such nonsense.

For recreational divers, and most deco divers, the question is: Why do things the hard way when there are easier ways of doing the same thing?
 
Scuba:
For recreational divers, and most deco divers, the question is: Why do things the hard way when there are easier ways of doing the same thing?

Agreed.
 
Decompression is not an exact science and using exact measurements of depth and time don't change that though it does create the allusion that we're being precise.

Using some decompression software, run some multilevel dives. Then run the same dives using a time weighted average depth and see how the software output varries. You'll find that the variations are very small, likely much smaller than the accuracy of the model. Once one has that "profile depth", whether from true multi level model calculations or rule of thumb methods the way you conduct the ascent is what makes the difference. To prove that to yourself, look at a software that applies gradient factors toa neo-Haldanian model. Notice that modifying the gradient factors effects the output far GREATER than minor variations in depth and time.

So some questions...if you were to dive using that software, which is the correct gradient factors to use? If I estimate profile depth, does it have a lesser than or greter effect than modifying the gradient factors (which most would view as lagit)? Even using a table, which is the correct table? Even if we only consider recreational dives, notice the huge variation in NDL's. Buhlman gives an NDL of what...17 minutes at 100 ft? DSAT 20 minutes and other tables maybe 25? That's an 8 minute difference which is 47% of the buhlman NDL and 40% of the DSAT NDL. Now notice that when gradient factors are applied the 17 minute 100 ft buhlman dive will require some decompression. What does that say about your 20 minute 100 ft DSAT dive? Which is the reaL NDL? You could see as great or greater differences in the outputs of different computors. If this were any kind of an exact science we would only be able to use one of these tables, one set of gradient factors or one of these models.

What I'm recommending here is a learning excersize and not meant to convince any one to change the way they dive.

Psonally, I think divers are just kidding themselves into thing that carrying a computer than does thousands of calculations per second is doing anything meaningful for them. I think we're applying the precision to the wrong end of the dive. That's just my opinion but I haven't been bent yet...except for maybe some subclinical stuff when I used to strictly follow tables and computors. LOL For the record, the longer and deeper I dive the more I want to be making the decisions myself rather than relying on the 22 year old CS major (who doesn't dive) who wrote the firmware in some cheezy (but expensive) computor.
 
MikeFerrara:
Decompression is not an exact science and using exact measurements of depth and time don't change that though it does create the allusion that we're being precise.

Great explanation. Good luck teaching the pigs to sing. They tend to just get angry. I would sincerly enjoy seeing just one of the mouths actually run this exercise and come back and say "Hey, I am starting to get it now." It would make attempting to describe this stuff not feel like such a waste of time.
 
(Never mind.)
 
RTodd:
Great explanation. Good luck teaching the pigs to sing. They tend to just get angry. I would sincerly enjoy seeing just one of the mouths actually run this exercise and come back and say "Hey, I am starting to get it now." It would make attempting to describe this stuff not feel like such a waste of time.

Then don't make the attempt ... or perhaps consider that the waste of time is caused by the way you choose to say it.

Perhaps it would be worthwhile to consider your audience ... most of the people reading this forum haven't been diving for decades, haven't taught ... or even taken ... technical diving classes, don't own decompression software, and wouldn't know what to do with it if they did.

This isn't Quest ... or even TDS. Tossing a GI3 tantrum here won't win you many listeners ... most people won't even understand why you're being so condescending.

So of course it's a waste of time ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)
 
RTodd:
(Disclaimer for the idiots: there are certain guidelines that have to be followed to do that.)
RTodd:
Good luck teaching the pigs to sing.
Duh... oink-oink... duh..huh... oink-oink-oink...
Gee wiz, Mister Mentor, I don't get it... oink-oink...
 

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