British wreck divers fined for retrieving artifacts

[Bob DBF]

one question comes to mind, if those are of such historic value why the heck they didn't send divers down there to retrieve them all this time?
its almost like they used this guys to get those artifacts withouth lifting a finger or paying a dime

also the article states that none if the wrecks were protected

It is easier to let someone else do all the work and take the risk, then confiscate the goods on dry land. There is quite a tradition of governments taking what they want.




Bob
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"Rogues are preferable to imbeciles because they sometimes take a rest".
Alexandre Dumas

 

[drbill]

Personally I dislike it when divers remove items from a wreck unless they are working for an established research institution. Yes, I realize I may be in the minority with that opinion, but I prefer to have objects left in situ for other divers to enjoy in the future.

One of our biggest wrecks here on Catalina, the Valiant, was stripped significantly by early divers including Mel Fisher. I don't understand the collector mentality. I take only pictures.

 

[boulderjohn]

I agree, I'd like more information. I'm not from the UK, but from an American point of view, they were being lost to the ocean.

One correction: this is NOT the "American" view. This is the view of a subset of divers in America, a subset primarily located on the northeast Atlantic coast. Past discussions on ScubaBoard on this topic have gotten quite heated, with what appears to be the majority having a viewpoint more in keeping with this:

Personally I dislike it when divers remove items from a wreck unless they are working for an established research institution. Yes, I realize I may be in the minority with that opinion, but I prefer to have objects left in situ for other divers to enjoy in the future.

One of our biggest wrecks here on Catalina, the Valiant, was stripped significantly by early divers including Mel Fisher. I don't understand the collector mentality. I take only pictures.

I do not believe you are in the minority, Dr. Bill. I know the major agencies, including PADI, support that position.

 

[Ste Wart]

There's a few other articles related to this case, one highlights that the divers used explosives to remove the artefacts.


The plain fact is this was mindless vandalism, both above and below the water. The pair clearly had little idea of how to preserve the artefacts once lifted (that cannon is now in a shocking state) and would have actually been better left in place, rather than air dried and left to rot.

 

[Hickdive]

one question comes to mind, if those are of such historic value why the heck they didn't send divers down there to retrieve them all this time?
its almost like they used this guys to get those artifacts withouth lifting a finger or paying a dime

That's exactly what the archaeological mafia do all the time.

People spend literally hundred of hours researching lost vessels and their likely positions then spend hours at sea with echo sounders and magnetometers pinpointing the wrecks they've researched then spend time and money diving to establish whether what they've found is what they were looking for or something else.

Once all that is done, if they do bring something up and do report it to the RoW then there is a good chance it'll be declared to be of archaeological importance and a the wreck will be protected, preventing the finders from ever diving it again. Meanwhile, the archaeologists won't have the funding to excavate the wreck so it'll lie there undisturbed for ever more.

The worst of it is that steamships of the 19th and 20th century are mainly of little to no archaeological value and their component parts, if lying in a scrapyard would attract zero attention. However, immerse it in brine for a few decades and it becomes "Britain's Maritime Heritage" tm and not to be touched by the unworthy.

 

[Dr. Lecter]

One correction: this is NOT the "American" view. This is the view of a subset of divers in America, a subset primarily located on the northeast Atlantic coast. Past discussions on ScubaBoard on this topic have gotten quite heated, with what appears to be the majority having a viewpoint more in keeping with this:



I do not believe you are in the minority, Dr. Bill. I know the major agencies, including PADI, support that position.

Last time I checked, back when that Northeast Atlantic subset was busy actually diving wrecks the "major agencies" were wringing their collective hands about diving past 130' and "voodoo gas."

their positions on the matter.

Which is not to say Dr. Bill's point is without merit--I can appreciate where he's coming from even if I don't think his (or anyone's) personal preference for untouched wrecks and distaste for barnacle-encrusted knick-knacks should protect all objects on all wrecks by default. But citing PADI's position on wreck conservation as adding any legitimacy is

 

[Akimbo]

These guys are giving [-]pirates[/-] wreck divers a bad name. They should be more careful not to get caught.

 

[DaleC]

It's a difficult question to tackle. On the one hand one can easily see how some wrecks do have historical significance and need to be protected while on the other hand some wrecks are exactly that - wrecks. If they pose an obstruction to shipping they will be wire hauled or dynamited. In some environments debris will soon be covered by silt and no longer viewable by anyone.

I'm 50/50 on the subject, depending on the circumstance.

 

[Jared0425]

I overlooked a important detail in my previous post. Some of the wrecks they stripped were warships which are protected in maritime law. I am a bit more strict on my views on that type of artifact collecting without the ownership nations consent, even though they are literally thousands of military wrecks and war graves. Run of the mill steamships and armed merchant vessels on the other hand is still fair game lives lost or not. Even military wrecks should be fair game if one puts the time and effort to locate them.

 

[Hickdive]

I overlooked a important detail in my previous post. Some of the wrecks they stripped were warships which are protected in maritime law. I am a bit more strict on my views on that type of artifact collecting without the ownership nations consent, even though they are literally thousands of military wrecks and war graves. Run of the mill steamships and armed merchant vessels on the other hand is still fair game lives lost or not. Even military wrecks should be fair game if one puts the time and effort to locate them.

Just to clarify, the news article is a bit misleading, the Protection of Military Remains Act 1986 does NOT automatically protect warships.

Individual warships sunk after 4th August 1914 have to be specifically designated as a controlled site or a protected place.

Only military aircraft are automatically protected.

None of the warships these divers removed artefacts from were protected under PMRA otherwise they would have been prosecuted under that law too.