C-card question not trolling

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I'm sort of torn on this issue. I too am an old pre-C-card diver. Started in 1957. Before all the speciality certs. came out, I already did most of them several times. About the only one I haven't done is Cave Diving (penetration out of sight of the entrance). When I couldn't by air without a C-card, it aggravated me; I was forced to get one via an instructor friend who sent my name in with one of his classes. I just recently got my AOW "legally" because I was not allowed to dive the deep side of Gilboa even though I dove it many times before Mike purchased the property.
Did the camel get his nose in the door with all of these speciality certs.? Down the road, will I need a wreck diving cert. to dive Toby, or Isle Royal? Will I need a Cavern diving cert. to dive Ginnie, or Troy, or Royal Springs? Will I need a Night diving cert. to dive at night from the Aggressors? Will I need a School Bus diving cert. to dive all the busses in various quarries? (OK, I went too far on that one) You get my point. You post C-card divers don't know any difference because you were brought up in the environment of instruction and certifications. Yes, you can actually learn to dive yourself. On this point I agree with Savitar. I dove safely for about 20 yrs. without a C-card. Carrying one in my wallet now doesn't make me any safer ; it just allows me to purchase air and life-support gear (and dive the deep side of Gilboa) Unfortunately, I can see the day coming when you go to Belize, you may have to have your AOW to dive the Blue Hole. You post C-card divers are probably saying, "yea, why not? it's a 140' dive" I say if you have the ability and confidense and experience, you should be able to dive where you please.
On the other hand, I am realistic enough to know that without the C-card, many idiots would donn on scuba gear and probably kill themselves because of lack proper knowledge via self training or instructor training. Walter is right; it doesn't matter; the system has got a full head of steam up now and will probably only get more regulatory in the future:(

My $.02

Barracuda2 ("mature" diver)
 
Things HAVE changed, and (agree or not) if we don't regulate ourselves, the government will.
And THAT would be a nightmare...
 
Rick Inman once bubbled...
THAT would be a nightmare...

Amen! You got that right Rick!
 
I think it boils down to one thing: Liability

As a fill center, instructor, or charter operation (and I'm neither of these!) I would be able to cover my ass in court if I saw a c-card that tells me the diver who is showing it has been trained to use whatever I'm selling.

Without it, you've got a far more serious problem if something bad should happen to that diver.

Like it or not, it's our litiguous society that demands this c-card. Do the training agencies feed off of this? Of course.
 
I wonder...since my compressor will soon be in my garage and I'll no longer be a dive shop...what if I sold air to who ever wanted it. You know...not advertised as scuba air or even breathing air but just as clean air, and maybe provided the air test results.

Certainly you could be sued over anything but air is a very common substance that we usually consider harmless. I mean really...if some one manages to hurt themselves with air...

Besides, any one can buy a compressor so it seems a little idiotic to restric the air that comes out of one.
 
You're right Detroit Diver, but what ever happened to personal responsibility? I eat myself obese and it's the fast food industry's fault; I smoke and get lung cancer or emphazema and it's the tobacco industry's fault; I'm a criminal and it's not my fault, it's because my dad didn't hug me. I get drunk in a bar and have an accident, and the bar owner gets sued because he didn't regulate my drinking; you sell air to an unqualified person who dies, and it's your fault??? GIVE ME A BREAK! People who do certain activities need to be responsible for themselves. Diving is voluntary. They are responsible for their actions, not dive tour operators, or retailers of equipment and air.

Barracuda2
 
Personal responsibility doesn't mean anything once you get before a judge or jury.

It's doesnt' matter whether we like it or not, it's reality.


Barracuda2 once bubbled...
You're right Detroit Diver, but what ever happened to personal responsibility? I eat myself obese and it's the fast food industry's fault; I smoke and get lung cancer or emphazema and it's the tobacco industry's fault; I'm a criminal and it's not my fault, it's because my dad didn't hug me. I get drunk in a bar and have an accident, and the bar owner gets sued because he didn't regulate my drinking; you sell air to an unqualified person who dies, and it's your fault??? GIVE ME A BREAK! People who do certain activities need to be responsible for themselves. Diving is voluntary. They are responsible for their actions, not dive tour operators, or retailers of equipment and air.

Barracuda2
 
MikeFerrara once bubbled...
I wonder...since my compressor will soon be in my garage and I'll no longer be a dive shop...what if I sold air to who ever wanted it.

How much will you charge

I'll be right over...
 
detroit diver once bubbled...
Personal responsibility doesn't mean anything once you get before a judge or jury.

It's doesnt' matter whether we like it or not, it's reality.



Again you're right. I just stood on my philosophical soap-box to say how it should be, not how it really is.
 
MikeFerrara once bubbled...
I wonder...since my compressor will soon be in my garage and I'll no longer be a dive shop...what if I sold air to who ever wanted it. You know...not advertised as scuba air or even breathing air but just as clean air, and maybe provided the air test results.

Certainly you could be sued over anything but air is a very common substance that we usually consider harmless. I mean really...if some one manages to hurt themselves with air...

Besides, any one can buy a compressor so it seems a little idiotic to restric the air that comes out of one.
It doesn't matter - when bad things happen the trial lawyers sue everybody with two nickels to rub together that can be touched. If you sold an injured diver the air in his tanks you'd be included, and would incur great expense even if completely exonerated. Therefore, to protect your family, you must have insurance, you must comply with the provisions of the policy, and... ergo... C-card required.
Rick
 

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