Can A NAUI DM Assist A PADI Class

[Jim Lapenta]

There is nothing to that effect in the 2015 PADI Manual. There is no discussion of equivalencies for certified assistants.

Certified Assistant​

A certified assistant is a Teaching Status PADI Instructor, PADI​

Assistant Instructor or Active Status PADI Divemaster.

He was not talking about PADI. He is a NAUI Instructor and was talking about NAUI standards. As a PADI DM I assisted a NAUI Instructor in several classes.
This was before I decided to crossover from PADI. I was taking NAUI Tech Intro to Tech and Helitrox at the time. It was within standards for him to use me as an assistant once he verified my knowledge and skills were sufficient for his classes. Good thing I had been diving with some GUE trained guys at the time as well. And had been reading Scubaboard.

 

[mmerriman]

gotcha - was hard to follow the thread.

He was not talking about PADI. He is a NAUI Instructor and was talking about NAUI standards. As a PADI DM I assisted a NAUI Instructor in several classes.
This was before I decided to crossover from PADI. I was taking NAUI Tech Intro to Tech and Helitrox at the time. It was within standards for him to use me as an assistant once he verified my knowledge and skills were sufficient for his classes. Good thing I had been diving with some GUE trained guys at the time as well. And had been reading Scubaboard.

 

[tomfcrist]

There is nothing to that effect in the 2015 PADI Manual. There is no discussion of equivalencies for certified assistants.

Certified Assistant​

A certified assistant is a Teaching Status PADI Instructor, PADI​

Assistant Instructor or Active Status PADI Divemaster.

Omission, you are either looking in the wrong place or looking at an ancient s&p.

Look specifically in the policies applying to all courses, assistants and ratios.

It says equivalent members from other agencies may be used as certified assistants but can only count towards ratios if in an active status.

Omission and I were specifically referring to the naui s&p....

Why padi won't afford certified dive professionals from other agencies the same courtesy is just beyond me..

 

[ScubaDocER]

Not according to the version of the NAUI book I have:

Definition
A “Certified Assistant” is an individual who has completed a designated NAUI Course and registered with NAUI and may include an Instructor, Skin Diving Instructor, Training Assistant, Assistant Instructor, or Divemaster.
Limitations
Many individuals can serve in the role of “assistant” during a course. The role and responsibilities that a certified assistant can assume may be limited by their rating.
Student:Instructor Ratio
The number of students one NAUI instructor may supervise in a given training situation varies with the course, the number of assistants, and the situation. The acceptable ratios are stated in the NAUI S&P Manual.
Assistants in training
Candidates formally enrolled in a NAUI Assistant Instructor course may assist with instruction, but only count toward ratios in confined water activities.
Assistant as role model
Assistants are powerful role models for the students with whom they interact. An assistant’s behavior is also a potent model of appropriate leadership conduct for future divers, some of whom will try to become leaders.


- it may have changed- but this is the version I have that defines a certified assistant as a NAUI trained leadership holding member-

From the NAUI S&P Manual 2012 Page 48

"
NAUI Leaders, NAUI Instructors, or other agency members
with corresponding ratings may be used as qualified
assistants but are only counted toward open water training
ratios if in active-status."

---------- Post added March 24th, 2015 at 12:36 PM ----------

So...now I'm completely and utterly confused. One says no...a couple say yes...I've made a couple people mad at other people and I think I may just go to bed. I'd like to think that two top agencies such as NAUI and PADI would play nice together since they have been at the top of the U.S. heap for years and have a lot of cross-over divers on each side. Again, I appreciate all the posts. I just want to go back to helping my former instructor with classes like I used to. You'd think 40 years of diving with hundreds of dives would count for something! Cheers all.

I am sorry that things seem confusing. I don't think it was the intent of anyone that responded. Most of the people here just want to make sure that you have accurate and correct information so that you can make an informed decision. That's my intent anyway. If you wish to help your local dive shop and can only to that as a PADI DM then others here have given you sound advice as to how to do that. If you wish to continue without having to cross over then you may wish to look into NAUI shops in your area. There is a NAUI Rep that covers your territory in the NW that would be able to assist you. I don't think anyone is mad. Just want you to have the facts.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

The biggest difference I saw between the two was when assisting the naui instructor was the lack of trying to sell the students something. It was all about working on the task at hand. In the classroom and the pool. I didn't have to try and talk them into more gear, the next class, etc. There was no selling. It was one of the deciding factors in my crossing over to the program that he was offering. It was a choice when I did of naui or ymca since he offered both. The philosophies were similar as we're the education offered. It ultimately came down to cost. At the time the y program route was more within my budget. But I could just as easily have chosen naui.

 

[Diverguy1]

Again...thank you all for your comments and suggestions. I called PADI this morning and from the horses mouth the answer is...No. As a NAUI DM, I cannot assist with classes or count as to the ratio. And the clarification as one respondent put it was not due to my skills...as a NAUI DM those have been proven...but more because I don't know the standards for PADI. I get that. Crossing over is not the issue and I will be doing so. There is only ONE dive shop in my area so this is it fellas. To assist, I must become at least a PADI DM or if I want to be an equivalent rating then go to a PADI Assistant.

Now as to whether NAUI or any of the other agencies allow this...that wasn't my question.

I've known a lot of instructors over the years from ALL agencies and some I wouldn't give you a nickel for. I don't care what the letters are behind the certification...I care about the quality of the instruction and the integrity of the instructor. Period. My NASDS instructor back in 1976 was the best instructor I've ever known. As a person...he was a bit iffy...but in the water...I trusted him like no other.

Thanks again for all the wise words. We are all DIVERS in the big blue...Matters not who got us there! Cheers my friends.

 

[SeaCobra]

hmmm, I might need to get some clarification here as I am a little confused. IMHO a PADI DM is not an equivalent to a NAUI DM as it relates to assisting in a class, especially of non-certified scuba students. My reasoning is that NAUI and PADI have a reversed view of the hierarchy of these ratings in that a NAUI DM has all of the rank and privilege of a NAUI AI, but that is not the case in PADI. So, in the NAUI world, you can use a PADI AI as an AI, but you can't use a PADI DM as an AI. Admittedly, I am not an expert on PADI, so I do remain open minded if anyone can help me out here.

 

[tomfcrist]

Jeff, a naui DM is a higher qualification than AI, but both are certified to assist in classes and count as certified assistants during classes.

Padi Does reverse the heiarchy but as their S&P points out, they are both certified assistants within their system that count against ratios.

I don't see what the problem is. Either way I won't use any certified assistant from an outside agency unless I am very familiar with their skill sets and competencies...it's just due diligence.

 

[demed]

And had been reading Scubaboard.

Now that's some serious training!!

---------- Post added March 24th, 2015 at 09:26 PM ----------

...

Why padi won't afford certified dive professionals from other agencies the same courtesy is just beyond me..

Hmmm.... lemme think.... why wouldn't an agency let an individual trained to a set of specific standards & requirements assist with a totally different set of standards and requirements?
when the accident happens the instructor will go in front of the jury and swear "your honor, how could i know he\she would do such a _______ (insert your expletive) thing in that situation?"
(these are the same people advocating how good and different their standards are from mass market agencies)

---------- Post added March 24th, 2015 at 09:28 PM ----------

The biggest difference I saw .... was the lack of trying to sell the students something....

says the guy who keeps peddling his own ebooks published on his own dime....

 

[tomfcrist]

Hmmm.... lemme think.... why wouldn't an agency let an individual trained to a set of specific standards & requirements assist with a totally different set of standards and requirements?
when the accident happens the instructor will go in front of the jury and swear "your honor, how could i know he\she would do such a _______ (insert your expletive) thing in that situation?"
(these are the same people advocating how good and different their standards are from mass market agencies)..

Complete horsecrap. The assistant is exactly that... The assistant. The assistant is there to help supervise and control the group. Even if the instructor has the assistant demo skills...there is virtually no difference between agencies. The difference in the training philosophy is minimal as well and certainly does not affect the bottom line which is to certify divers. If you can tell me the real difference in the training program for a padi DM vs a naui DM i would be amazed. Hint hint...it has already been pointed out in this thread.