Can You 'Really' Dive?

[deepstops]

No spitting. None.

 

[bowlofpetunias]

I agree with everything you said. My girlfriend is my dive partner 90% of the time and when she got certified it was made very clear to her that she will set up her own gear and take care of her own equipment, including maintenance. We also plan our dives TOGETHER. There is no babysitting. For the poster that talked about holding his wifes hand and guiding her around, what happens if something happens to you?

We agreed to this not because I'm an ******* but because I expect her to stay on her toes and know her equipment. If something happens to me I have to rely on her to be able to fix the situation or lead the dive (if she isn't already). We also practice OOG drills, maskless ascents, etc. quite regularly. Our equipment is the same so if there is a problem with mine she is able to correct it because it's what she's used to. I understand scubaboard is mostly vacation divers, what I don't understand is how there aren't more accidents from some of the dive practices I read about here, and the fact that I bet half of the users on this board are unable to calculate rock bottoms or turn pressures. Flame away!

Great you have worked out how things need to work with your wife/buddy so you both know where you stand. Communication is a valuable safety measure in Scuba! I hold my husband's hand when we dive sometimes.. I even like to get underwater hugs.... part of the fun for us!

I would suggest that your understanding about the dynamics of most of the divers on SB is not necessarily accurate!

That is what they seem to be around for locally. Never seen a DM get in the water for a boat dive and the captain always does the dive briefing, not the DM. Their role seems to be:
-helping anyone with a gear problem such as tangled hoses, can't reach drysuit hose and so on, not there for switching tanks, lifting tanks, putting fins on and so forth, though a few times they've handed me up extra tanks or stages when I've been getting out of the boat so I don't have to jump back on. This is not expected though.
-dropping the shot
-taking details of dive plans i.e. max depth, BT, RT, mix used, stops
-helping people find buddies if they've shown up alone
-checking everyone's air is on (they watch SPG/computer whilst you breathe off all your regs on the main charter here)
-tying the boat to the pier when docking
-grabbing SMBs off people when they are being picked up by the boat
-serving milo and biscuits after the dive
-getting people to sign their dive plan after the dive
-being able to assist with first aid and O2 if required in an emergency

On most charters there seems to be the captain and one DM (who does not get in the water). Some boats only have a captain.

Interesting how the expected Role of the DM isdifferent in different areas. Most boat dives I have done on East Coast Autralia the DM has got in the water. Led dives. Assisted with gear as needed, ensured safe entry and exit as needed and many will change tanks. I prefer to prepare my own gear and change my own tanks tho.

Simply put the ops attitude is a little harsh.

No one is born with experience you earn it and as a professional you should know that.

An instructor is meant to be a beacon for others to look up to particularly new divers.

I agree that some CUSTOMERS can be lazy and expect to much. I also agree that inexperienced divers need to be accompanied if they feel uncomfortable at a new site, and should expect to pay for the service.

Its worth considering that not all divers are capable of carrying gear and normally have set buddies to dive with that are used to this.

However on holiday they will look at a trained professional for help and assistance my own company's and associate company's would expect our staff to assist and be happy about it.

I'm with you on that! I am only now getting used to the idea that insisting on being independent is sometimes silly. If someone wants to be kind and load my tank into the boat for me... I say thanks and help load the lighter stuff!

I guess this is the Wine and Cheese so the right place to have a "rant" but as ScubaSteve has every eloquently stated if the goal was to educate as the OP indicated later.. IMHO it should have been put in a less confrontational manner.

We have a dive buddy who wears makeup even to dive. That is just her way but she is a competent diver in every way! We have a dive buddy with a current health problem. We are happy to carry the gear, and help in an out of the water. This is a competent diver with more honest bottom hours than many instructors.

What makes a diver a diver? Diving experience and you don't get that by waiting to dive when a DM/Instructor is available and you can afford to hire them to be your buddy.

 

[redrover]

So,
Was this a cat fight or mud wrestling?

never did think either were very flattering.

 

[Sas]

Interesting how the expected Role of the DM isdifferent in different areas. Most boat dives I have done on East Coast Autralia the DM has got in the water. Led dives. Assisted with gear as needed, ensured safe entry and exit as needed and many will change tanks. I prefer to prepare my own gear and change my own tanks tho.

Oh so DMs get in the water in NSW from charter boats? I've only done shore dives there so was not sure what the go is. Charters just don't provide them here. I have seen clubs dive on charters where a DM has been brought along to dive with new divers in the club but yea, definitely no charter-specific DM in the water. I wonder what their reaction would be if I asked them to change my tank too I have to say I prefer it how it is in Melbourne but when I've travelled, as long as they leave me alone to my own devices and follow me around mostly, I don't mind DMs being in the water.

 

[deepstops]

Regardless of the level of help the DM provides, every diver should be able handle and set-up their own gear or at a minimum, have a buddy with them to schlep the gear on/off the boat. Divers that require an extraordinary amount of hand-holding can't just show-up for a trip and expect that level of hand-holding without making prior arrangements.

The original post was directed at a situation that occurred in Tampa, Florida on a six-pack boat that does NOT employ a DM to assist the divers. The boat may have or may not have had a mate onboard but even then, a mate is NOT a diving professional.

 

[DCBC]

Are you a vacation diver? Do you 'expect' someone to carry all of your gear...babysit you underwater (not just be a buddy), are you just not sure of normal boat ettiqutte, does your car/suv/truck smell like anything other than moldy scuba gear?

Ok....IF you answered YES to any of the above...you have no business putting yourself on a boat 'assuming' someone will take care of you....

I read this question and the first two responses and am answering without the benefit of reading the discussion. Perhaps I'm reading between the lines here, but I'm guessing that the OP is a little frustrated with divers who are unable to look after themselves and require DMs and Instructors to carry the ball.

There are of course several perspectives on this and I think it's fair to say that:

1. Not all divers are physically able to carry equipment;
2. Others expect Staff to cater to them;
3. Many Certified Divers have not been trained to be self-sufficient; and
4. Communication is always important.

Personally, I think it's a matter of managing expectations. It's the onus of the Dive Operator to outline what is expected of the Diver and arrange for Divers who can't meet these requirements to have additional assistance (at the expense of the Client). If this is not cost-effective for the Client; they can go elsewhere with the blessings of the operator.

Good communication is necessary between the DO and its Staff. I too would get frustrated if it was understood that all Divers were to be self-sufficient and this wasn't the case. Obviously if this was an oversight, I'd work hard to ensure that the Client's expectations were met and discuss the matter afterwords with the DO.

The fact that there are many Divers being trained today who are not self-sufficient, is something that affects us all. It's easy for the LDS to run minimal courses that increase equipment sales, but the problem falls on the DMs and DOs. I for one can appreciate how a DM/Instructor may feel.

I usually get stones thrown at me when I bring up "the good old days." When every Diver had to possess the skills necessary to be self-sufficient. Unfortunately this no longer seems to be the case. It will no doubt try the patience of many diving professionals in the future.

 

[FishOutUvH2O]

I didn't quite understand the OP's point. Were they saying "can do it" or "must do it"? Especially with the tank carrying requirement. If someone wants to carry my tanks and/or equipment, I'm certainly not going to argue with them simply for the sake of machismo.

And this was probably mentioned somewhere in the 18 pages (I skipped to the end after 3 pages), but if your equipment smells like mold, you have a disgustingly low standard of cleanliness. And if that's one of their criteria for determining if a person can "really" dive, then I don't "really" want to dive. . . With that nasty, stinky person! They probably don't even wash their wetsuit.

 

[OldNSalty]

does your car/suv/truck smell like anything other than moldy scuba gear?

If you keep your gear in such bad shape you really don't need to be diving...I actually take care of my gear, and my car for that matter.

 

[sabbath999]

If you keep your gear in such bad shape you really don't need to be diving...I actually take care of my gear, and my car for that matter.

There are months at a time that my gear never actually dries out... but it is NEVER moldy. My car doesn't get moldy either.

Having said that, if I load up our stuff after a dive and stop to grab a bite on the way home... and the car is in the hot summer sun... when I get back from lunch there can be a pretty good hot wet neoprene funk going on inside the ole wagon.

 

[SkimFisher]

I haven't bothered to read all 500 replies, but I agree with many of the counter-points made to the initial post. I can also see the other side's POV as well.

I'm a new diver and I am very aware of the fact that not all experienced divers like to dive with the noobies. Hey, that's your right and quite frankly it goes both ways - I don't want to dive with someone that doesn't want to dive with me. So my feelings aren't hurt if someone says "no thanks". I don't want to learn from someone that finds it a burden to teach.

I don't think inexperience makes you a bad person or unfit for one activity or another. An OW cert is basically a license to practice, nothing more. It doesn't make me an expert.

IMO, those that find it a burden to teach do more harm than a diver that doesn't know any better.