chinese can lights

[runez]

I own the Brinyte DIV06 can light, which I think looks very similar (or may be the same) as DRIS's Can Light.

Initial impressions were great, the light was bright, price was good and the quality felt good.

I brought it along for my Cavern course, it did pretty well for the first 4 dives. By the 5th dive, the light started to flicker, but a little tapping brought it back to life. On the 6th & last dive, it died halfway in the cavern and would come on again.

Now on dry land, the light works again, although it's safe to say I won't be bringing it on any more dives.

On the bright side, it was an opportunity to practice the "deploy backup light" procedure.


The Brinyte DIV03 (aka DRIS 1k Shorty), on the other hand, is a pretty good light. I own 3 of those and they're still in good working condition.

 

[Aotus]

Maybe it's just the finance and economics I took or maybe my progressive capital understanding of markets, but that whole post reeks of BS.
....

The US has nowhere near the cheapest labor, and buying a product because it was made here doesn't make it better.

This whole argument mirrors the "BUY LOCAL! Support your LDS!" war cry that many of us laugh at as we order online. If a company is good enough that their product speaks for itself I will buy it (if the price reflects the value). If not I'll be on my merry way.


I'm sure you're the type of customer that these companies dream about that; irrationally loyal.

I have this opinion because I've met business owners and manufacturers in this industry and others, who care deeply about their product, and make it because it's what they love to do. Still, they struggle because people don't want to pay a fair price when they can buy from a company that doesn't have to take care of their employees.

Also, I never made the point that I always buy local - I cannot afford to stand by altruistic principles in all cases, but do what I can when I can. I wrote the above post to add some perspective by highlighting some of the other factors that influence the cost. You say domestic products are overpriced, but isn't domestic milk overpriced if we compare it with other countries? "Overpriced" is a remarkably unenlightened generality used by a person with knowledge of economics, and if you do not understand why labor costs are not (thankfully) as low as in other countries, I call BS on your self-proclaimed expertise on the subject.

In any case, I tried to participate in a discussion and got flamed for highlighting the value of small businesses. If that's what this thread is about, I'm out.

 

[DazedAndConfuzed]

Maybe it's just the finance and economics I took or maybe my progressive capital understanding of markets, but that whole post reeks of BS.
Despite what you may think, you don't always get what you pay for. You'd certainly like to think that spending 10x as much on a product will get you 10x the light, but that's simply not the case. It's really an extrapolation of just world hypothesis. You want to believe it's better, why else would it cost more?

The whole "I SUPPORT THE USA!! CHINA BLOWS!!!!" is a funny attitude, given many of the name brand lights are made in china anyway. I have no problem with it, because I think that if a company cannot stay competitive while operating out of one area then they should move. It's just a competitive advantage. The US has nowhere near the cheapest labor, and buying a product because it was made here doesn't make it better.

This whole argument mirrors the "BUY LOCAL! Support your LDS!" war cry that many of us laugh at as we order online. If a company is good enough that their product speaks for itself I will buy it (if the price reflects the value). If not I'll be on my merry way.


I'm sure you're the type of customer that these companies dream about that; irrationally loyal.

I wouldn't say it blows to support local product, even if it is made in china. Since if it was properly designed here, and it being mfg'd in china meeting the standard and quality expected by the company, it could be a worthy product (maybe not at 10x the price, but one would be willing to pay a few times premium). But much of these US companies are nothing more than import/export branding companies that scout alibaba for products where they can put their logo on, and then have elaborate websites that goes on and on about how much thought went into that magntic switch or heat sink and such, and then the next item in their line looks nothing like the previous item and uses a different type of switch or heat sink.

 

[scubastingray]

Yeah I'm not suggesting that US products suck, and as you have said many things can be designed here and manufactured over there. I am not nationalist enough to simply grant value to otherwise non competitive products based simply upon origin. There are things I buy that are US made or designed, and I've got no qualms in doing so. However origin isn't a redeeming feature in my mind; I want to buy what is the best value for the features I need.

Sure aftermarket support may not be quite as good, but at the huge price discrepancies it doesn't matter; I could buy 10 at a time and still end up saving money.

And I do agree that some of the communication regarding their "specially designed lights" is sort of humorous. DRIS, DGX, divers-supply etc have a bunch of the Brinyte lights I believe.

 

[Dive Right In Scuba]

HA HA>>.this is awesome. What's hilarious to me at least is how we took a crappy light, helped the manufacturer re-design it so it was awesome, had a ton of time/energy/fun into it, buy hundreds at a time which has a huge cost, pay import duties and taxes on every light, market the hell out of it, bring you guys a light that nobody can touch on price and quality for 2 years, sell THOUSANDS of them... Only for the manufacturer to realize the success and branding that was done and take that same light, mass produce it to ANYONE that will pay money, kill the price to lower than cost so they can sell direct to YOU killing more jobs here.....and we are the bad guy that just re-labels a Chinese light. Hilarious!

You're starting to see Chinese manufacturers go direct to consumers. That is why the pricing is so low....guess what, that is an economy killer. If you don't think China is doing that on purpose, then I can't help you.

I will say that we work hard to bring great products and pricing to our customers, and can't help if others piggy back or steal that. Our new light we are working on is coming along nicely, and it's design is sure to make people notice! When you see copies of it, be sure to remember who did it first, and don't label us a re-labeler

Sorry for the rant, but it's hard to stay out of something that your name is brought into....

 

[BDSC]

So when someone decides to buy from you over the internet, do you tell them to buy local instead to save the local economy? When you sell to folks direct over the internet, aren't you doing exactly what you are complaining that the Chinese are doing?

 

[scubastingray]

I think the brinyte models predate a lot of the domestic "brands."

Hell, even your Can Light is just a brinyte div06/div09. You just recently started carrying that; it's been available for a year or two under the brinyte label.

I have no problem with brining cheaper goods in. I love it! It creates competition, but that light is $180 more than I can get it elsewhere. The customer service better come with a hell of a lot to justify a 150% increase in price. No amount of "special DRIS exclusive research" is going to convince me it is worth the 150% increase for the same product that has been available years longer elsewhere.



To be fair, I do like DRIS and have spent about a grand there in the past 6 months.

 

[lemke]

I'm not a cheapskate, but I am careful about what I spend... and it's not always about the bottom dollar. I do my research and make informed purchases. The shops that stand behind their products, can answer questions in real-time, and have first hand experience with their stuff (even if they are rebranded blah-blah-blah), will get my money!

 

[Dive Right In Scuba]

So when someone decides to buy from you over the internet, do you tell them to buy local instead to save the local economy? When you sell to folks direct over the internet, aren't you doing exactly what you are complaining that the Chinese are doing?

Great question! I would agree with you if we were a leech like others in the industry..taking what we can, and not supporting the industry. But, we do everything for our industry. You only see an online store, but we are the LDS and a HUGE one at that to our local crew. We bring almost 200 divers every year into the sport of diving, we have 2 fairly new boats on Lake Michigan that are showing divers from all over the world the wrecks in the depths, we repair over 600 drysuits per year for dive shops and divers all over the world, we are one of the top dealers for almost every brand we sell, blah blah blah. I would fully agree with you if we just stole money from this sport, and didn't put back....100000000%

---------- Post added August 11th, 2014 at 07:41 PM ----------

I think the brinyte models predate a lot of the domestic "brands."

Hell, even your Can Light is just a brinyte div06/div09. You just recently started carrying that; it's been available for a year or two under the brinyte label.

I have no problem with brining cheaper goods in. I love it! It creates competition, but that light is $180 more than I can get it elsewhere. The customer service better come with a hell of a lot to justify a 150% increase in price. No amount of "special DRIS exclusive research" is going to convince me it is worth the 150% increase for the same product that has been available years longer elsewhere.



To be fair, I do like DRIS and have spent about a grand there in the past 6 months.

LOL, that light isn't that old. I can show you emails of when I asked my contact there to make us a canlight, and was told they couldn't do it. I can share with you the many emails I sent them trying to get them to make us a custom goodman handle. Brinyte may predate alot of domestic brands, but the 1000 lumen you see in it's current form is 100% from us, I helped design the shorty and still have early concepts on my desktop, I was the inspiration and push for their can light and the first person they came to about buying it. You may only see it as a new brand Stingray, but you just joined a few months ago....I know the whole history of that company and have been there with them for awhile. I would challenge you to find that light before we introduced it.... Won't happen

Regardless, that doesn't matter....but that is all true. The reason our markup is high on that light....and why it's not going much further with our company, high failure rate. We couldn't trust it in the beginning, but decided to give it a chance. We have to prepare for a light to fail at least once, and cover that cost. Not to mention Free Shipping, Loyalty Points, etc. It's a decent cheap light....no more, no less.

And thanks for your continued support, that is how we get to keep playing with new things and bring you cool stuff!!

 

[scubastingray]

Great question! I would agree with you if we were a leech like others in the industry..taking what we can, and not supporting the industry. But, we do everything for our industry. You only see an online store, but we are the LDS and a HUGE one at that to our local crew. We bring almost 200 divers every year into the sport of diving, we have 2 fairly new boats on Lake Michigan that are showing divers from all over the world the wrecks in the depths, we repair over 600 drysuits per year for dive shops and divers all over the world, we are one of the top dealers for almost every brand we sell, blah blah blah. I would fully agree with you if we just stole money from this sport, and didn't put back....100000000%

Sure I get that you guys are active, and wish I were closer to check out the shop and use you for fills/repair work. That doesn't mean that I want my purchases to subsidize entry of new divers, or that any of the other activity should impact my decision to purchase a product that much. I definitely am willing to spend 10-15% more at a place if they have proven themselves to me and I know I can trust them, but I'm not willing to pay much more of a premium, regardless of how many new divers they brought in and the presence they have in the industry.

LOL, that light isn't that old. I can show you emails of when I asked my contact there to make us a canlight, and was told they couldn't do it. I can share with you the many emails I sent them trying to get them to make us a custom goodman handle. Brinyte may predate alot of domestic brands, but the 1000 lumen you see in it's current form is 100% from us, I helped design the shorty and still have early concepts on my desktop, I was the inspiration and push for their can light and the first person they came to about buying it. You may only see it as a new brand Stingray, but you just joined a few months ago....I know the whole history of that company and have been there with them for awhile. I would challenge you to find that light before we introduced it.... Won't happen

Regardless, that doesn't matter....but that is all true. The reason our markup is high on that light....and why it's not going much further with our company, high failure rate. We couldn't trust it in the beginning, but decided to give it a chance. We have to prepare for a light to fail at least once, and cover that cost. Not to mention Free Shipping, Loyalty Points, etc. It's a decent cheap light....no more, no less.

And thanks for your continued support, that is how we get to keep playing with new things and bring you cool stuff!!

I can't seem to find the date listed on your product listing, but I remember seeing it listed as a new arrival since I've started shopping at DRIS (and I placed my first order in late february of this year). Was it introduced much before that? The earliest review is in april. It's too bad the failure rate is high, but that is definitely a risk I and others take when we order overseas. I've had pretty good experience, but I haven't tested this light in particular or extensively.

I hope you'll forgive that I've only been a forum member for the past 10 months.



Also, related to the topic at hand I've got the 3 Led div10 en route, so we'll see how it looks. I know the usual tricks with quality (replacing/checking seals and o-rings), so hopefully it works out but I'm willing to deal with the hassle.