Classes using dive tables

[bigsnowdog]

If you were comfortable with the tables, you wouldn't be asking the question, right? Because it wouldn't be a concern.

Yes, of course, that is correct.

 

[themagni]

The problem with a computer is that is gives you a very precise measurement of something. The problem with not knowing the tables, or at least the principles therein, is that you're not entirely sure what that something is or why it affects you in that way.

If you are aware of the nitrogen loading on your system, how time and variant pressure changes the offgassing in your system, how the tables were originally created, and how they affect you, then you can choose your own risks. If you're planning your dive, you should have some idea of how long you can stay at a given depth before it becomes a problem, and just "waiting until my computer says 5 minutes left" is an accident eagerly awaiting aggravating conditions.

I'm an Electrical Engineer, I dive with a computer, but I always plan my dive and check my absorption with tables just in case. Computers are to be trusted with precision, not accuracy.

One of the stories in "Diver Down" includes a over-reliance on an unfamiliar computer as a cause of death.

 

[Supershark]

I believe that a knowledge of the tables is very useful for all divers. An over reliance on a computer can lead to problems, as can not knowing how to use the computer correctly. I have seen many people using their computers as a depth guage and only ascending when the dive leader does, this has led to many interesting situations on the surface when I am asking the diver "Why is your computer beeping?" Answer usually 'I don't know".
I have on many occasions began a liveaboard trip with a class on how to use your computer.

 

[gcbryan]

If you're not going to completely understand the tables then you at least need to understand what's behind the tables. This goes for computer use as well. It's not about following the computer or following the tables but actually understanding the principles behind them.

The tables are a little archaic and a bit of a pain to use if you don't use them frequently but if you really don't understand them to the point of this post then I would guess that you don't understand the principles behind them either and that's the problem.

You can't really expect to go on to higher training without understanding the principles up to that point.

 

[bigsnowdog]

If you're not going to completely understand the tables then you at least need to understand what's behind the tables.

I do.

I understand partial pressures, oxygen toxicity and its effects, and the concepts and significance of the physics and human physiology that all come to bear.

 

[offthewall1]

Are there any classes requiring the use of dive tables beyond the basic class and the nitrox class?

I have heard PADI is thinking of dropping dive tables and allowing instruction with computers. Too late for me.

I have no aspiration to be a divemaster or instructor, but would like to take some more classes. I understand the science well, but did not do well with dive tables, and it seems pointless frustration, given the use of computers.

Have I gotten past the dive table requirements in classes?

Tables have become obsolete - along with the PADI wheel. PADI is following SDI into the modern world with the allowance of Dive Computer Training in place of tables.

The three main reasons are simple. 1. Nobody* uses tables anymore, 2. Computers are safer than tables. 3. Many resorts now require computers to dive with them.

Let me expand on these comments - as I know there are the few old timers who will jump all over this post.

1. Nobody uses tables anymore. That comment is not entirely true. Tables do have a place in advanced "technical" diving, but not in recreational diving. If you continue your education into the technical arena it may eventually be necessary to do tables, however, with the advances in computers - even that may not be necessary much longer.
2. Computers are safer. Well - some are and some are not and it really depends on what you consider safer. A basic modern air or Nitrox computer is extremely safe. It eliminates the possibility of human error possible in table calculations much like a calculator elimnates the chance for human error in math. Any computer which is non-air integrated and is hard wired (not on a transmitter) is 100% safe so long as the batteries are changed when needed. The worst case scenario is a battery fails on a dive and your dive is over. Not a big deal within recreational limits. Simply ascend to 15 feet and stop for 3 - 5 minutes. Now I'm not convinced thatair integrated or transmitters are entirely safe. They fail much to frequently while underwater. Fail to read air supply and can go completely blank on you without warning and for no apparent reason. I advise staying away from them until the science is better perfected.
3. Resorts require them - not all, but many and in increasing numbers. Showing up without a computer may keep you off a boat or at a minimum force you into renting a computer you know nothing about and don't understand. By being trained in computer diving - you will have eough understanding to use almost any computer out there.

Here are key points to remember in computer diving
1. Read the manual - understand your computer
2. Buy a computer with a user changeable battery
3. Change the battery before each dive trip and carry an extra battery with you on the trip
4. Avoid computers using transmitter technology - they are more prone to failure

Now with all that said... I await the rebuttles...

 

[offthewall1]

I believe that a knowledge of the tables is very useful for all divers. An over reliance on a computer can lead to problems, as can not knowing how to use the computer correctly. I have seen many people using their computers as a depth guage and only ascending when the dive leader does, this has led to many interesting situations on the surface when I am asking the diver "Why is your computer beeping?" Answer usually 'I don't know".
I have on many occasions began a liveaboard trip with a class on how to use your computer.

The reason for this is the useless training of divers with tables - instead of the more sensible training of divers with computers.

One reason many dive centers still train with tables is an ancient mindset - but furthermore it is because they can not afford - or are to cheap to upgrade their rental / training fleet with computers.

If the shop you train with doesn't give you a computer for the dives - I'd seek out a new training center.

 

[RJP]

The answer to the OP's question is that there are plenty of other dive courses after OW and Nitrox that do NOT require the use of tables.

 

[mkutyna]

The problem with not understanding tables and relying entirely on your computer is that you're pretty much screwed for subsequent dives if your computer dies during or just before a dive.

If you understand the tables and haven't gone into a deco obligation (according to the tables) on your first dive of the day, you can still run the tables and dive a second dive. If you don't know how to use the tables then you're stuck on the boat/shore while your buddies go diving.

 

[tridacna]

The problem with not understanding tables and relying entirely on your computer is that you're pretty much screwed for subsequent dives if your computer dies during or just before a dive.

If you understand the tables and haven't gone into a deco obligation (according to the tables) on your first dive of the day, you can still run the tables and dive a second dive. If you don't know how to use the tables then you're stuck on the boat/shore while your buddies go diving.

Wear two computers. problem solved.