Computers/Timers?

[Soggy]

Harry hit the nail on the head.

To understand the 'formula' for calculating decompression, you need to understand the system it is based on....it only works with certain gasses at certain depths, etc etc. Basically, the rules have no meaning outside of the framework for which they are designed.

 

[radinator]

CJ,

With all due respect, you are sounding like a dance student telling Fred Astaire "Just tell me where you put my feet, and I can be a good dancer like you."

It's not just where you put your feet.

When I took my DIR-F class, the instructor let interested non-students sit in on the lecture part of the class. One of those sit-ins arrived very skeptical about the "no computer" aspect of it. Afterward, she saw how it could be done safely, and is even interested in doing it herself. She just said to me yester that she's still intrigued by that.

Note, though, that she currently still dives a computer, as she hasn't been through the whole class (missing the in-water part) and she sees how it all fits together (knowledge AND training) and that just picking a piece of it is not the best thing to do. The "formula" as you call it also fits together with specific gasses, ascent procedures and stops along the way. It's not just a formula.

Could you imagine beginning astronauts being told "Well, now you know the mathematics of rocket flight. Get in there and launch!"

We're not trying to be mysterious...it's just that you're asking for one leg of the tripod, so to speak.

Ray

 

[CJ-62]

CJ,

With all due respect, you are sounding like a dance student telling Fred Astaire "Just tell me where you put my feet, and I can be a good dancer like you."

It's not just where you put your feet.

When I took my DIR-F class, the instructor let interested non-students sit in on the lecture part of the class. One of those sit-ins arrived very skeptical about the "no computer" aspect of it. Afterward, she saw how it could be done safely, and is even interested in doing it herself. She just said to me yester that she's still intrigued by that.

Note, though, that she currently still dives a computer, as she hasn't been through the whole class (missing the in-water part) and she sees how it all fits together (knowledge AND training) and that just picking a piece of it is not the best thing to do. The "formula" as you call it also fits together with specific gasses, ascent procedures and stops along the way. It's not just a formula.

Could you imagine beginning astronauts being told "Well, now you know the mathematics of rocket flight. Get in there and launch!"

We're not trying to be mysterious...it's just that you're asking for one leg of the tripod, so to speak.

Ray

The assumption that this information is new is absurd. A PADI instructor in 1984 gave me the rule of 120, which was 30 years old then. Why do so many in the DIR forum assume that only DIR students can comprehend deco theory? Some of us learned some form of deco before the advent of the WKPP and might want to see want all the fuss is about.
Your approach, demanding that it is all or nothing, is patronizing. Give us one leg of the tripod and tell us where to get the other and you can bring the lost souls in from the cold clamoring for the third.
Remember, Someone showed Fred Astaire where to put his feet before he learned how to dance. And lastly, of course it is just a formula. Every dive is an equation, you just have to know all the variables.
CJ

 

[Soggy]

Remember, Someone showed Fred Astaire where to put his feet before he learned how to dance. And lastly, of course it is just a formula. Every dive is an equation, you just have to know all the variables.
CJ

Yeah, Fred Astaire probably took dance lessons....

 

[Ben_ca]

The assumption that this information is new is absurd. A PADI instructor in 1984 gave me the rule of 120, which was 30 years old then. Why do so many in the DIR forum assume that only DIR students can comprehend deco theory? Some of us learned some form of deco before the advent of the WKPP and might want to see want all the fuss is about.
Your approach, demanding that it is all or nothing, is patronizing. Give us one leg of the tripod and tell us where to get the other and you can bring the lost souls in from the cold clamoring for the third.
Remember, Someone showed Fred Astaire where to put his feet before he learned how to dance. And lastly, of course it is just a formula. Every dive is an equation, you just have to know all the variables.
CJ

CJ-62
You have a lot of questions (pony tanks, computers) that have already been answered both in your posts and in old posts (remember the search function is our friend ) but it seems that these aren't the answers you want to hear.

Please take the class... maybe you'll find the answers you seek.

 

[CJ-62]

Yeah, Fred Astaire probably took dance lessons....

So, what you are saying is that if you aren't born with it, you cannot get it?
Where does "take the class" fit in that philosophy?

 

[CJ-62]

CJ-62
You have a lot of questions (pony tanks, computers) that have already been answered both in your posts and in old posts (remember the search function is our friend ) but it seems that these aren't the answers you want to hear.

Please take the class... maybe you'll find the answers you seek.

My questions are not answered with "take the class". I sought someone who had taken the class to answer the questions. The use of 'why...' was not to annoy, although it obviously did. The thread about dive computers eventaully gave me multiple options: use it a guage, use it as a backup, don't depend on it, don't even buy one. The thread on the pony was useful but it took multiple proddings to get past the "We don't use them" stage.
The resistance to divulging a couple of rules of thumb was disconcerting, and I never did get co-operation. This forum was supposed to be about discussing DIR but no one wants to talk freely and openly about the logic behind it. Not without a little persistance anyway.
Look through my posts I never said anyone was wrong. I just asked 'why' questions and that seemed to tick off a few people.
If all this is old news then sorry, please don't respond, I'm still investigating the system.
CJ

 

[onfloat]

Here's the deal. If you take the class then it comes straight from the horses mouth. You should not stop asking why things are done the way they are done. Sometimes solutions create more problems then they solve and sometimes a little knowledge is a dangerous thing. The risk you are taking by getting an answer from someone who has taken the class is you may not get the whole picture. Why not get it from the person that has been qualified to present the information? It's only a few days of your time and about the cost of a cheap computer.

 

[Uncle Pug]

CJ-62, your initial question was a good one. The DIR forum was created to allow users to ask DIR questions and receive DIR answers (not to discuss whether or not DIR is correct.) We want to make the threads in this forum as useable as possible for those seeking to learn about DIR.

After reading this thread it appears to me that most of what can be said has been said and the links to other pertinent threads cover the topic very well. Rather than let this thread devolve into an argument I have decided to close it. IF cogent reasons for re-opening this thread are presented to me via PM I will certainly re-consider.

Thread Closed