Crowley's day in Sharm
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OP
Hi sparedog and others who ask -
I usually keep the name of my centre out of the forum because the views and opinions here expressed are my own, not the company's and I wouldn't want anything I say here to reflect on them should what I write be factually inaccurate or offensive! Also - I am called Crowley for real, it's not just a scubaboard avatar!
Will send a PM...!
Cheers
C.
ameneon
Contributor
Because you said that getting the facts correct was so important and then you said that you based your statement on that a shark was seen in Sharm in October. There are sharks there all year round... I was in Sharm June this year and we saw an OWT so I guess "they" have hidden "the facts about sharks" in the area for even longer... :mooner:
OP
The sharks have been seen in this area since people started diving in the area...
what irks me is that here I am, right in the middle of it, with the best information available to me at the time (and I would love for people to update me if I have made some inaccurate reports), from people who have clocked up thousands and thousands of dives here for decades, and yet some people are more willing to believe what is reported in - for example - the daily mail (more interested in katie price's new hairdo) are the "facts".
It's all very well to become an armchair sharm-el-sheikh shark expert from somewhere else in the world but when you are faced with the prospect of losing your livelihood over this (me included) then the facts become a little more important.
Peace,
C.
what irks me is that here I am, right in the middle of it, with the best information available to me at the time (and I would love for people to update me if I have made some inaccurate reports), from people who have clocked up thousands and thousands of dives here for decades, and yet some people are more willing to believe what is reported in - for example - the daily mail (more interested in katie price's new hairdo) are the "facts".
It's all very well to become an armchair sharm-el-sheikh shark expert from somewhere else in the world but when you are faced with the prospect of losing your livelihood over this (me included) then the facts become a little more important.
Peace,
C.
I understand your problems and have adressed this as the biggest threath following the incidents. I do not claim to be a Shark expert, but the "do nothing these sharks have been all around all the time" attitude bugs me. Most people here are experienced divers and not in the group that has anything to loose from this. Then it is easy to first and foremost protect the animals, not the people.
What should the local population do if ther is to be a decline in the tourist industry. Start fishing again ? Well that would really be the end of the Shark area.
OP
Sorry Daggad - was a little tetchy at that moment... but reading the media as "fact" is a mistake.
I'm not suggesting we do nothing - that is not my attitude at all - just that hindsight is a wonderful thing once it's all happened, and as the media is wont to do, it is spinning the tale of human tragedy and suffering without looking at the further consequences to either sharks or humans. Neither is it my attitude that Mr. Crowley's job is the only important thing to worry about after the horrendous ordeals of the victims, but along with trying to present the facts objectively, I can't help but feel a little emotional about the whole thing.
The "local population" doesn't really exist to a certain extent. Most of the Egyptian staff are from Cairo, Alexandria and Suez; they work here because there is work available, but their real homes are elsewhere. There are a growing number of ex-pats in a similar fashion to the Spanish Riviera and the European staff in the dive industries and hotels are mostly capable of moving on; it is a very transient industry after all. Some staff have been here for years and I have no plans to leave, but there's always somewhere else to go for quality dive staff.
I don't want to see a drop in tourism, because it is my job after all, but I would rather lose my job than see the sharks removed from the area. Nobody wants to see another shark attack but the fact is that as many others keep mentioning, we are visitors in their domain and they are apex predators. Whether one has gone "rogue" or it is due to the other contributory factors is a little academic, to a point
My sincerest hope is that lessons will be learned and the illegal fishing activities / fish feeding and whatever else might be a contributory factor is stamped on and more heavily policed so that we can continue to co-exist with the underwater realm in a way that is conducive to all species involved.
I want to see a broadening of awareness for both Egyptians and foreigners - both staff and tourists who have, either through greed, ignorance, or their own self importance, assisted or allowed through inaction these things to occur. People really do come here demanding to see big sharks - and I suspect that some wealthy, ignorant, self important people will bully and bribe others into trying to provide this for them.
Many of the local staff come here for the summer season and know next to nothing about the environment in which they are working. They have an attitude: "People come to see fish, so we feed the fish, the fish come, the people come, they bring crispy green dollars". Some of the worst culprits are the glass bottom boats - I see their staff topside throwing food into the water to deliberately attract the fish under the boat. They know it's illegal, but they do it anyway. People have tried to report it in the past, but without clear photographic evidence of the people involved and what they are doing, nothing gets done. Tourists often have the same attitude - this is clearly evident by the number of people standing on coral plates, or divers sitting in the coral to get that all important close-up picture of the nudibranch.
This, I think, is where the authorities have failed in the past. This is also not a problem solely restricted to Sharm - it is a worldwide problem of ignorance and greed, right from the poorest countries to the richest.
For me - I want to keep my job, of course I do. I have to balance the tragedy of the human injuries and fatality and try to keep some perspective on the much greater tragedy of the damage that is being done to our oceans and the already decimated shark population.
People might suggest that if there was no diving, no tourist resorts, no human factor, then we would not have these problems. If that is the case then pretty much every member of Scubaboard is guilty.
Well - the phone just rang and at least I am back to work tomorrow - Dahab here we come!
Cheers
C.
I'm not suggesting we do nothing - that is not my attitude at all - just that hindsight is a wonderful thing once it's all happened, and as the media is wont to do, it is spinning the tale of human tragedy and suffering without looking at the further consequences to either sharks or humans. Neither is it my attitude that Mr. Crowley's job is the only important thing to worry about after the horrendous ordeals of the victims, but along with trying to present the facts objectively, I can't help but feel a little emotional about the whole thing.
The "local population" doesn't really exist to a certain extent. Most of the Egyptian staff are from Cairo, Alexandria and Suez; they work here because there is work available, but their real homes are elsewhere. There are a growing number of ex-pats in a similar fashion to the Spanish Riviera and the European staff in the dive industries and hotels are mostly capable of moving on; it is a very transient industry after all. Some staff have been here for years and I have no plans to leave, but there's always somewhere else to go for quality dive staff.
I don't want to see a drop in tourism, because it is my job after all, but I would rather lose my job than see the sharks removed from the area. Nobody wants to see another shark attack but the fact is that as many others keep mentioning, we are visitors in their domain and they are apex predators. Whether one has gone "rogue" or it is due to the other contributory factors is a little academic, to a point
My sincerest hope is that lessons will be learned and the illegal fishing activities / fish feeding and whatever else might be a contributory factor is stamped on and more heavily policed so that we can continue to co-exist with the underwater realm in a way that is conducive to all species involved.
I want to see a broadening of awareness for both Egyptians and foreigners - both staff and tourists who have, either through greed, ignorance, or their own self importance, assisted or allowed through inaction these things to occur. People really do come here demanding to see big sharks - and I suspect that some wealthy, ignorant, self important people will bully and bribe others into trying to provide this for them.
Many of the local staff come here for the summer season and know next to nothing about the environment in which they are working. They have an attitude: "People come to see fish, so we feed the fish, the fish come, the people come, they bring crispy green dollars". Some of the worst culprits are the glass bottom boats - I see their staff topside throwing food into the water to deliberately attract the fish under the boat. They know it's illegal, but they do it anyway. People have tried to report it in the past, but without clear photographic evidence of the people involved and what they are doing, nothing gets done. Tourists often have the same attitude - this is clearly evident by the number of people standing on coral plates, or divers sitting in the coral to get that all important close-up picture of the nudibranch.
This, I think, is where the authorities have failed in the past. This is also not a problem solely restricted to Sharm - it is a worldwide problem of ignorance and greed, right from the poorest countries to the richest.
For me - I want to keep my job, of course I do. I have to balance the tragedy of the human injuries and fatality and try to keep some perspective on the much greater tragedy of the damage that is being done to our oceans and the already decimated shark population.
People might suggest that if there was no diving, no tourist resorts, no human factor, then we would not have these problems. If that is the case then pretty much every member of Scubaboard is guilty.
Well - the phone just rang and at least I am back to work tomorrow - Dahab here we come!
Cheers
C.
Thanks for shearing your thoughts and feelings with us Crowley. I am impressed in the way you are able to have an objective view from different angles in this question. And put these in writing.
I dont think there is much more to say as long as it hopefully will not be any more attacks.
I dont think there is much more to say as long as it hopefully will not be any more attacks.
MatD
Registered
I've been following these posts for a while now as a lurker.. and firstly, I, as I am sure all of us, feel sad for those directly impacted by the physical attacks and those in the local industries such as Crowley, who if I read this right, has limited work due to the reduced numbers of divers (>50 dive criteria). No diving = no money for a number of dive guides there, as they are paid per dive. (I of course speak with no authority on this other than what I have read on these forums)
It's fun to sit back and watch the various opinions, but more importantly, as a regular visitor over the last 4 years to Sharm, the situation here is very dear to my heart and dive plans in the new year.
The Middle Garden is my regular check dive site, and is a very pleasant place to get my skills zoned in, before heading out to Tiran or Ras Mohammed. In the last 3 years of diving this Gardens, I have yet to experience anything larger than am Eagle Ray and a few large Fish. Pearing out into the Blue on the drop off at the edge of the reef, is always rather heart stopping, especially when you get a 1.5m Napoleon emerging from the gloom, on a dusk time dive. It is very easy to see how any number of larger fish are just beyond that drop off.
As a relatively inexperienced diver, I am comfortable with getting in and out of the water, even in choppy conditions. With a few over 20 dives, I do not consider myself completely competent and do not know how I would react with a OWT shark encounter should it become agressive. The restriction placed on >50 dives may help with being calm getting in and out of the more dangerous areas at the surface, but fear is fear no matter how many dives, and none of us know how we would react, until we have been in that situation.
To me and my family/buddies, this restriction is going to prove very frustrating, as my booked and paid for Holiday, that I saved up for all year to go dive, is now turning into a pool side week in the sun.. Yay.. what joy !!.. But yes, before I get flammed, better a week relaxing in the sun than an encounter that goes wrong.
My thoughts on the restriction is that as an emergency procedure, it's good and reasonable to use this as a gauge, however moving forward, perhaps something a little more structured, like an assessment on site at a secure environment (perhaps a netted open water area. How practical this is, I guess not very), following a short course on Shark orientation and emergency procedures. This gives dive guides the ability to better gauge that thay have divers who they feel safe getting in the water with, and that divers are not naive about best practices and behaviours should a shark be encountered. I would be very Happy to pay for the privaledge to be instructed in shark awareness, if it meant that I was able to feel safer in the water again
Anyway....Just some thoughts of a rambling frustrated diver, so please free to ignore
MatD
It's fun to sit back and watch the various opinions, but more importantly, as a regular visitor over the last 4 years to Sharm, the situation here is very dear to my heart and dive plans in the new year.
The Middle Garden is my regular check dive site, and is a very pleasant place to get my skills zoned in, before heading out to Tiran or Ras Mohammed. In the last 3 years of diving this Gardens, I have yet to experience anything larger than am Eagle Ray and a few large Fish. Pearing out into the Blue on the drop off at the edge of the reef, is always rather heart stopping, especially when you get a 1.5m Napoleon emerging from the gloom, on a dusk time dive. It is very easy to see how any number of larger fish are just beyond that drop off.
As a relatively inexperienced diver, I am comfortable with getting in and out of the water, even in choppy conditions. With a few over 20 dives, I do not consider myself completely competent and do not know how I would react with a OWT shark encounter should it become agressive. The restriction placed on >50 dives may help with being calm getting in and out of the more dangerous areas at the surface, but fear is fear no matter how many dives, and none of us know how we would react, until we have been in that situation.
To me and my family/buddies, this restriction is going to prove very frustrating, as my booked and paid for Holiday, that I saved up for all year to go dive, is now turning into a pool side week in the sun.. Yay.. what joy !!.. But yes, before I get flammed, better a week relaxing in the sun than an encounter that goes wrong.
My thoughts on the restriction is that as an emergency procedure, it's good and reasonable to use this as a gauge, however moving forward, perhaps something a little more structured, like an assessment on site at a secure environment (perhaps a netted open water area. How practical this is, I guess not very), following a short course on Shark orientation and emergency procedures. This gives dive guides the ability to better gauge that thay have divers who they feel safe getting in the water with, and that divers are not naive about best practices and behaviours should a shark be encountered. I would be very Happy to pay for the privaledge to be instructed in shark awareness, if it meant that I was able to feel safer in the water again
Anyway....Just some thoughts of a rambling frustrated diver, so please free to ignore
MatD
OP
MatD I see from your profile picture you've been to Shark Reef recently - nowhere else here has that many snapper in the same place!
At the moment, the restrictions are still in place, but Dahab is an alternative. If you have the budget, you will be able to dive there so all is not lost - it won't be the same as Sharm, but it's possible. The big centres are running daily trips there so it maybe you sacrifce a day's diving in order to cover the costs of the relocation.
The 50+ dives is not perfect - I can look at a diver for about 30 seconds in the water and know how "good" they are - and I've seen freshly baked open water divers who are more confident and comfortable in the water than people who claim to have hundreds of dives and when I see them in the water I genuinely wonder how they have managed to survive that many dunkings in the ocean. Generally speaking, however, of the thousands of people I have guided, 50 or so dives means they are okay in the water.
What anybody does when they are confronted by something unexpected, whether it is 5, 50 or 5000 dives, cannot be guaranteed. I have found that some of my less experienced colleagues don't seem to care about what might be stalking them, because they have no experience of these creatures, whilst those who have been diving for years with these creatures are not quite so carefree about being in the presence of a killer. It's like somebody who has never been burgled who never locks their front door because it's never happened to them, and somebody who knows what it's like and has 5 deadbolts on every door in the house.
Btw last year at Middle Garden one of our guides saw two Whale sharks baitballing... Middle garden looks pretty dead but it can surprise you sometimes!
Cheers
C.
At the moment, the restrictions are still in place, but Dahab is an alternative. If you have the budget, you will be able to dive there so all is not lost - it won't be the same as Sharm, but it's possible. The big centres are running daily trips there so it maybe you sacrifce a day's diving in order to cover the costs of the relocation.
The 50+ dives is not perfect - I can look at a diver for about 30 seconds in the water and know how "good" they are - and I've seen freshly baked open water divers who are more confident and comfortable in the water than people who claim to have hundreds of dives and when I see them in the water I genuinely wonder how they have managed to survive that many dunkings in the ocean. Generally speaking, however, of the thousands of people I have guided, 50 or so dives means they are okay in the water.
What anybody does when they are confronted by something unexpected, whether it is 5, 50 or 5000 dives, cannot be guaranteed. I have found that some of my less experienced colleagues don't seem to care about what might be stalking them, because they have no experience of these creatures, whilst those who have been diving for years with these creatures are not quite so carefree about being in the presence of a killer. It's like somebody who has never been burgled who never locks their front door because it's never happened to them, and somebody who knows what it's like and has 5 deadbolts on every door in the house.
Btw last year at Middle Garden one of our guides saw two Whale sharks baitballing... Middle garden looks pretty dead but it can surprise you sometimes!
Cheers
C.
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